just saying what everyone else is

[vaznetti]

It's nice not to feel completely out of step with the fandom re: Dean and his misogynist language; as everyone has pointed out, trollprincess did the math and there's a distinct upswing in the number of times Dean and Sam use pejoratives when addressing women -- from 3 times over 22 episodes to 18 times over 16. So it's not surprising that by the time I got to the end of the season I was more or less unmoved by Dean's suffering.

What I like best, though, are the excuses for it -- which range from "blame CW!" to "that's not sexist!" to "they deserve it!" to "it's because of the fangirls!" But my absolute favorite, so far, has to be "It's all John's fault!" (cereta's whole post there is worth reading, as are the comments). Because although indeed it is theoretically possible that John was a sexist asshole, the textual evidence we have does not support it. I am so tempted to go all teal deery about this! Because sure, Missouri and Ellen (and probably Mary) would totally have put up with that.

Unless calling Kate-the-vampire "sweetheart" counts in this context, of course.

Comments

[medie]

Yeah, I was oddly relieved and stress free with the confirmation. You get constantly told you're just imagining things/being alarmist enough, you start wondering. It's a relief to be able to point to at least one source of concrete facts.

And I've gotten ALL these excuses and then some (don't forget the 'well, we just didn't get to see the girls talking about THEM that way' one I also got). Including the blaming John. Which. Huh. Just No. Somehow, I can't see John doing that. I tend to cite the way the boys addressed him as an indication that he's probably not going to take that kind of disrespectful language about anyone. Considering he seemed to venerate Mary (plus Ellen and Missouri both would've whapped him one). It's just highly unlikely.

Also completely beside the point, but I just can't resist picking up for John. Perhaps next he'll get blamed for the fall of the Roman Empire and reality television?

[vaznetti]

I really boggled at some of the comments on your post. I mean, I like the show too, but I'm tired of people making all these excuses for it.

I have to run now, but wanted to say that much. ::hug::

[medie]

My brain keeps breaking with attempts to find coherent ways to say "well, that's, er, insane." Yes. I'm tired of the excuses. I just want people to go "wow, that's wrong." Not "that's not right, but..." It reminds me of a Jeff Foxworthy routine. "Just once I want somebody to say, my papa was great, my mama was great, I'm just a shithead." Let us not try to subscribe sympathetic motives to characters and their screw ups when, really, it's the people behind the curtain who need a metaphorical smack upside the head.

*SNUG*

[vaznetti]

I think you are being very tactful. I would be rolling my eyes and probably have descended into rudeness by now.

Considering he seemed to venerate Mary (plus Ellen and Missouri both would've whapped him one). It's just highly unlikely.

Yeah, and Missouri knows what you're thinking. Would she really agree to help him if he were deeply sexist (or racist)? I mean, if anything, it's the final absence of John which has let this side of Dean come out.

[medie]

I have done a lot of biting of my tongue. A *lot*. Tthough boy did I have to sit on my hands when I was reading through comments on someone's journal and saw, what looked like, a quasi-attempt at blaming John by spotlighting the Marine culture toward women. It was...on one hand true, but with enough spin on it that I had to forcibly move on. The last thing people need is a Canadian popping up to lecture someone on the gender politics, sexual assault statistics, and general treatment of women by the US military.

I am, however, sputtering plenty IRL.

But yes, if the brainlessness keeps up? No More Ms. Nice Canadian. *G*

and yeah, I *REALLY* don't see John putting up with this kind of disrespect (and I certainly can't see Missouri letting it slide. She certainly seemed to have the personal latitude with John to let him have it if he needed it.) I can't see a man, so obviously still so affected by Mary, tolerate those kinds of attitudes in his son. And yeah, you're right. If anything, we could point toward John's absence for this sudden shift with Dean.

[vaznetti]

I saw somewhere in comments someone saying "We wouldn't like Sam and Dean so much if they were the kind of people who said 'sir' and 'ma'am' all the time." And I didn't do it, but I really wanted to say, 'hey, remember S1? where they called their father 'sir'? and used 'sir' and 'ma'am' for a lot of older people, at least? I did like that Sam and Dean!" I mean, John sure didn't put up with disrespect toward him, and I'm guessing he expected them to show the same kind of respect to his peers.

But I was too busy rolling my eyes and spluttering to type.