SPN 2x22: All Hell Breaks Loose, Part 2

[vaznetti]

Spoilers all kinds :

I was hyperventilating and clutching a pillow to my chest through pretty much the whole thing. the Crossroads Demon! the Colt! the gate to hell! What the YED needed Jake (or someone!) for!

And oh, Dean, with his belief that he failed, and his tarnished soul, and his complete dogged inability to give up. Oh, Dean. Bobby was so, so right. And when did you ever fail your father? Certainly, not at the end, when you held the gun and took your shot, and didn't miss.

And John! John coming back to save Dean's life AGAIN! And moving on, to heaven and Mary, one can only hope. (Well, unless you're me, in which case you really hope that he just reappeared somewhere else, at least for fic purposes.) But no, that's what had to happen, that was the ending he needed. And maybe that last touch to Dean will be enough for him, as well.

(And interesting, despite the "Sam is John's favorite" shtick the Demon used, and Dean believed, at the clinch, here as in IMToD, all John's attention is on Dean. That's it. Sam is on the periphery for them, again and again. I think he broke something when he left, something that never really healed for the three of them, although it bound John and Dean ever more tightly.)

I love that Dean thought he was going to keep his deal from Sam, too. And yeah, that worked out well. And I loved Sam's speech -- of course he won't let Dean die. Of course it's his job to save his brother -- what else?

I love that the show actually ended the YED plotline. That took nerve -- a lot of nerve, to wrap an arc like that up -- and yet they set up the next year beautifully, with Dean's year to live and Sam's questionable return (because the way he shot Jake? Yes, there was something wrong there.) Not to mention a couple hundred demons running loose. I also really liked Samuel Colt's churches, and his iron Devil's Trap, as a plot element. And I really, really liked that both Bobby and Ellen were alive at the end to be merchants of infodump.

(Oh, John. I realize this is me. But oh, John. Pulling himself out of hell to wrestle the Demon away from Dean, buying them all enough time -- buying Dean enough time, because in the end it all came down to Dean, doing his father's work and in the end, with that "This was for our mom, you son-of-a-bitch," speaking in his father's voice. Interesting that in the end, Sam had nothing to do with the Demon's destruction.)

I kind of wanted Jake to not be completely evil, but oh, well. better luck next year. After all, we still have Hendrickson, and with the YED out of the way, maybe the show will focus more attention there.

I will also say that if I were the YED, I would have taken the damn bullet out of the Colt before handing it to Jake. I mean, it didn't take a bullet to open the crypt, so why even take the risk? Luckily for you all, I am not in fact and evil mastermind. (And how fascinating, that the Demon had another reason for wanting the gun, all that time ago.) Interesting that YED didn't kill all of Jake's relatives -- and I wonder if that's one reason it left Dean alive, to have one thing to hold over Sam, if he were left behind. Interesting as well that the children who died earliest were those with nothing to love, like Max, or Andy's brother.

I loved the final scene between Sam and Dean, when Sam confronts Dean with what he's done. That "We just killed the Demon, can't we celebrate for a bit?" line, because no, Dean, you just sold your soul to buy your brother's life. We can't celebrate. But even more than that, I loved the reset, the look back to the premier, with the gun, and the trunk, and "We've got work to do." Here's to season three, and many after.

This probably sounds more coherent than I actually am. Typing is hard because my hands are shaking.

Oh, one last thing: we never did learn why Mary recognized the demon, did we?

Comments

[celli]

No, we never did! And I am so thrilled that there's those little threads (Mary, Hendrickson) to tug on next year, in addition to the new big plot.

*squee*

[vaznetti]

I love that they didn't succumb to the temptation to drag the YED plot on and on, and that the show is going to be strong enough to keep going without it.

PLEASE let there be more Hendrickson next year! PLEASE!

[yahtzee63.livejournal.com]

Speaking of our conversation the other day, I will note that as the gates to hell were opened the war began.

[vaznetti]

Hahaha! YES!!!!!

Come on -- 200 demons to send back to Hell, and a nuclear strike! Why make things easy for them?

[yahtzee63.livejournal.com]

Seriously, it couldn't have been set up better. I gotta start outlining.

[vaznetti]

You know I will be your faithful beta-reader!

[cofax7]

Oooooh, story! Yay!

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

Oh God, that scene with Bobby and Dean broke me SO MUCH (and I was already broken by Dean's opening monologue...). Dean so needed to hear that. Interesting that Bobby says it there for his own good and angry/lovingly, but then the demon mocks Dean with it later ("What is it with you Winchesters?" *flails*)

all John's attention is on Dean. That's it. Sam is on the periphery for them

Which makes me sad for Sam, except this is the flip of what happened in Home.

Joooooooohhhhhnnnn! :D

Oh, they've set things up beautifully. They had a good villain this year, they actually ended him (how much did I make real, live victory arms at that?) but now they have other problems.

[vaznetti]

I'm so glad that John came back, and so sad that he's gone now.

I love the way the Demon echoed back everything at Dean -- not just Bobby's speech, but the "what's dead should stay dead" line as well, which of course is my favorite.

[dotfic.livejournal.com]

Oh, the ECHOES, yes. Lots of them.

It just ripped my heart out, this ep, and at the same time was such a joy. Talk about catharsis!

[phantomas.livejournal.com]

I couldn't resist and stayed up to read the spn_live comments and entries like yours as I wait ofr the first torrent to appear...I had to know if John did appear! :)
So, I'm completely spoiled now, but I think I will enjoy the episode anyway. :D

[vaznetti]

You will enjoy it -- I hope -- even with being spoiled. I was so thrilled when I saw JDM's name in the credits!

[phantomas.livejournal.com]

Oh I will. I will :)
Been waiting to see a glimpse of a John for a whole season, after all.

A 'John ex machina' twist will always work for me *G*

[casapazzo.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, there was something very wrong with Sam there when he shot Jake. So wrong that that's where I thought the rest of the ep was going to skew, but oh, they're saving it up. Which means much more flailing next season.

And oh, DEAN. *clutches him* John really was all eyes on him, and oh, Dean needed that so badly.

I kind of can't believe they didn't burn YED's body, Colt-bullet or no. It seems like one of those extra steps of precautions that can't hurt.

And yes, yes, yes, "We've got work to do" pilot-ep shout-out. God, I love it. I don't know what it is with my favorite shows and ending on lines about going to work ("Angel"), but it kills me. I can't wait for next season.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, there was something very wrong with Sam there when he shot Jake. So wrong that that's where I thought the rest of the ep was going to skew, but oh, they're saving it up. Which means much more flailing next season.

YES!!! TOTALLY!!!! i thought for sure that Sam!GlowyEyes was going to be the last shot of the ep.

I kind of can't believe they didn't burn YED's body, Colt-bullet or no.

coulda sworn the body disintegrated, but i was watching at work and we were busy right then.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

on rewatch, so totally wrong. d'oh. i keep forgetting that the YED inhabited a human.

[vaznetti]

Oh, yes, there was something very wrong with Sam there when he shot Jake. So wrong that that's where I thought the rest of the ep was going to skew, but oh, they're saving it up. Which means much more flailing next season.

What destina said, which I like, is that Sam is furious -- because he's just figured out what Dean must have done, and that Jake didn't kill Sam, he killed DEAN. But I also think that Sam believes that he's destined to go bad, demon or no demon.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

this? :::points to face::: this is my so fangirling you face. :::points again frantically::: and destina. fangirling you both like, whoa.

But I also think that Sam believes that he's destined to go bad, demon or no demon.

if Sam had any doubts, which i believe he did, and not just because of the wanting, i think he lost them when he realized what the "winner" was for - crossing into the devil's trap. that knowledge coming *after* his seeing that the YED had put demon blood into Sam took away whatever buried hope he had.

he agreed that a full demon couldn't cross the iron....those children aren't just speshul, they were made part demon, even if it's just a tiny bit to enhance their inherent abilities. if not, then the YED could have just given the Colt to anyone and fairy magic'd them to open the door.

[vaznetti]

he agreed that a full demon couldn't cross the iron....those children aren't just speshul, they were made part demon, even if it's just a tiny bit to enhance their inherent abilities. if not, then the YED could have just given the Colt to anyone and fairy magic'd them to open the door.

Exactly! Which means that even though the YED is gone, we're left with the problem of Sam's powers and what they've made of him. I think it's interesting that for both Ava and Jake, opening themselves up to their power really seems to change their affect: Jake in particular seemed at first very much undecided about following the demon's commands, but when we see him in the graveyard, he seems committed to the plan. And Sam has that power: I think he has the power to command all those demons who have escaped -- but does he dare to use it? And what will happen if he does?

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

Jake in particular seemed at first very much undecided about following the demon's commands, but when we see him in the graveyard, he seems committed to the plan.

totally. and i'm with Hossgal in that i don't think Jake was wholly evil, nor Ava for that matter. what took place in the town was nothing less than a fight for survival. in Ava's case, the length of time there drove her insane, i think. i mean, what are you supposed to do? the so-called "right" thing by letting yourself die a horrible death at the hands of some demon, or fight for your life however you can? lather, rinse, repeat = batshit.

i agree Sam totally has that power - that he can "open" up if he chooses to - and i think what will save him is that he never got *forced* to make the choice in the survival instinct way that Ava and Jake had to, over and over.

Jake didn't go all truly ev0l at first. he wanted to kill the demon and get his own life back, but the demon left Jake with what seemed like no choice - Jake's complicity or his family tortured to death. so then like Ava, if there's no way out, you might as well do what it takes to win, because it's worry about strangers or protect the lives of your family...and i don't think a "normal" person would be able to truly extrapolate out Actual End Of The World in a way that would have any impact on the immediacy of the decision, you know? Jake's not gonna *really* understand that it won't matter if his mom and sister don't eat their own intestines because the world's going to be ALL DEMONS ALL THE TIME. he only barely believes they actually exist.

Sam couldn't kill Jake because Sam had the knowledge; the true, deeply, tangibly understand the consequences knowledge of his actions because he's been fighting the Bad Things since he was a kid. Jake and Ava never stood a chance.

[hossgal.livejournal.com]

I loved the info dump a great deal less than you did, and thought the YED wrap up was a little fast -

- but then I thought - a war is on, and the boys aren't going to sit back and retire and stay out of trouble (and off the road) - they're going to be out busting ghosts and hunting rogue demons.

Which gives excellent opportunities for a) more Agent Gotcha, and b) revisiting old ghosts they've already finished, because the ghosts came back from hell. So I have decided that I *rilly* like the re-set after all.

And, of course, John. And yeah, he came back for Dean. There is a thought running about in my head that as similar as John and Sam are, John and Dean needed each other (and the family) the way Sam never did. And yet that independence was John and Dean's gift to Sam.

(I don't see Jake as completely evil, but that's a post for a different day.)

- hg

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

There is a thought running about in my head that as similar as John and Sam are, John and Dean needed each other (and the family) the way Sam never did.

because they lost it in a way that Sam didn't.

my brother is still deeply messed up by my parents divorce, believing it was his fault, because he was 4 years older than me and experienced and processed it in a way that i simply didn't have a reference for.

[vaznetti]

because they lost it in a way that Sam didn't.

Yeah, I totally agree -- they share a loss that Sam can't comprehend.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

yup. and it's exactly why they never *really* got Sam's need for his freedom from the hunt - because they can't comprehend a world that Mary was never in.

[vaznetti]

The infodump was clunky, but it was kind of washed away by all the emoporn, for me.

b) revisiting old ghosts they've already finished, because the ghosts came back from hell. So I have decided that I *rilly* like the re-set after all.

OOOOH! I hadn't even thought of that as a possibility! Cool!

I think Jake was on the fence to the very end, but I think that in saying "yes" to the YED, even though he's doing it to protect his family, actually changes something in him -- there's such a sharp contrast between his affect in the final scene and in all his previous scenes.

I think John and Dean both define themselves in terms of an absence -- Sam, Mary -- and somehow that leads to an even greater need for each other, for the thing they don't lack. Maybe.

I'm kind of charmed by the way the YED's grand plans fizzled away to nothing -- all short-circuited at the end. But Sam and Dean will have a lot to do, wrapping up the details.

[hossgal.livejournal.com]

Me and the roomie rewatched today, and decided that the last segment, post Demon-killing, needed to be cut well before Sam said "how long did you get?"

But that was just us (and Cofax, evidently.) *g*

I'd sign up to write Jake's back story, but not this month.

I hadn't even thought of that as a possibility! Cool!

A woman with more time than I (also? higher organizational skills) would get together a challenge or ficathon or something based around that possibility.

I'm kind of charmed by the way the YED's grand plans fizzled away to nothing -- all short-circuited at the end.

Someone else said it better - the YED was the hero of his own story, and in his story, he was much more important than the rest of the universe thought he was.

- hg

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

It was very odd, really. Good--I loved Bobby and Dean out in the junkyard, broken bits of Dean catching the light against the shattered glass of the wrecked cars. Just broke my heart-- until they heard movement, and then suddenly they were all business. I loved Dean telling Bobby not to tell Sam, and then rolling over the first time Sam says "don't like to me."

And I really loved the YED. Best sarcastic, gloating villain ever. And I am glad that they completed the avenging mom plot but left some apocalypse for next year.

But the whole season seemed to lead up to a big confrontation where Dean had to save his brother from turning to the dark side of the force or kill him, and all the angst of that decision never happened, though I can't fault them on the angst they dished up instead. But I sort of felt cheated out of my evil!Sammy moment.

Though he did seem pretty killy with the Jake.

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

Don't lie to me, not, "don't like to me" Can't spell at this time of night...

[vaznetti]

But the whole season seemed to lead up to a big confrontation where Dean had to save his brother from turning to the dark side of the force or kill him, and all the angst of that decision never happened, though I can't fault them on the angst they dished up instead. But I sort of felt cheated out of my evil!Sammy moment.

Yes, that was odd -- but I think we may get it next season. After all, the Demon may be gone, but its army is still out there, and so is the general he made. And I think that both Sam and Dean are entertaining the notion that there is something not right with Sam.

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

but I think we may get it next season.

I will like that if it happens--well, if the suspicion remains. Though I don't want a really evil!Sammy. It would be nice if saving Dean is Sam's redemption.

[storydivagirl.livejournal.com]

It was just brilliant from beginning to end. And Jensen and Jared...Jensen with the grieving, but Jared with slipping in and out of Sammy with the creepy stuff with Jake. I'm interested to see if they explore that or if we're supposed to think it ends with the demon being dead.

But one thing that hasn't changed is how much those boys love each other.

A part of me wondered if part of the reason they wrapped up the YED was the fact that going into the last of filming they didn't know if they were going to be renwed and wanted some closure? But I like that we're done with YED itself, but the consequences will carry them into the next season.

[vaznetti]

I'm sure that they wrapped up the YED plot because they were concerned about renewal, but I think it was a brave choice nonetheless -- shows which are too reliant on a single storyline can run into problems if they drag it out too long.

And as you say, it turns out that getting rid of the YED hasn't made everything better, after all. Which is really cool.

[subtly-modded.livejournal.com]

not reading not reading not reading.

10 minutes till showtime for me!

oh god oh god oh god.

*ahem*

i just had to do something...watching the posts fly past is k.i.l.l.i.n.g. m.e.

[vaznetti]

I know! The time just drags and drags.

And what will we do with our Thursday nights, now?

[subtly-modded.livejournal.com]

omg omg omg.

finished watching now.

i really REALLY need someone in my time zone to watch these with.

(sorry to post twice but...i mean...i .... i'm gonna go make a response post in the newsletter now...)

Wow

[se-parsons.livejournal.com]

Why do we write fic for this show? It writes its own fic!

Half the conversations in the ep tonight were straight-up emo-porn fic stuff!

Hooray!

I can hear a million computers booting up to write post-eps and Dean/Bobby RIGHT NOW after that show. And maybe some Bobby/Ellen, because it really seemed like team-up time at the end there.

I can't believe John was there and had no lines.

John's disappearance didn't look entirely heavenly to me. There was some flickering, which is the mark of a ghost on the show and then black smoke along with the light. More like Mary when she appeared at the house, except for the smoke. I wonder what is up. Why didn't he talk? I think they're keeping John in play in case they can get JDM again.

It seemed a bit truncated, but there was so much to love. And way to use all kinds of plot elements that were introduced before, but in a whole new way!

Re: Wow

[vaznetti]

Half the conversations in the ep tonight were straight-up emo-porn fic stuff!

I know! First the Crossroads Demon, but Bobby, too -- both those speeches were in fan-voice. And that's not even touching all the conversations between Sam and Dean!

There was some flickering, which is the mark of a ghost on the show and then black smoke along with the light.

I may cling to this thought, because I would really like to see John again. But I don't think we will. (I wonder if JDM didn't speak because it would have cost too much?)

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

While watching this, I did think how lucky they were that Jensen Ackles had his training in the soaps.

[vaznetti]

You say that like melodrama is a bad thing!

[cofax7]

Gotta say, I'm a bit tired of watching JA cry. Can he be badass again, please?

[hossgal.livejournal.com]

Angstless!Dean, whilst Blowing Shit Up. Yeah, we need more of that.

(Also - SamandDean Roadshow, right? So we should have Sam issues, right?) (*cough*Jessica*cough*)

- hg

[vaznetti]

Well, Dean was kind of grinning at the thought of a couple hundred demons to send back to hell in the next year. So maybe we'll see more of that, and less emo.

[ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com]

How do we know that the demon didn't lie in the Mary flashbacks? That he didn't just want to...I don't know. Create in Sam a sense of inevitability or whatever? (I do hear the pitter patter of plot bunnies feet though)

Oh my god, this episode killed me dead (of course, dead. Couldn't kill me alive. *facepalm*). I mean, they.killed.the.demon. For their mum. And JOOOOOHNNNN *flails like mad* I KNEW he'd come back.

I'm... I'm shaky and hyper and teary and I don't know what else.

[vaznetti]

Heee! Yeah, I was only pretending to be coherent here. Inside, I was flailing and saying "John! John!" a lot.

How do we know that the demon didn't lie in the Mary flashbacks? That he didn't just want to...I don't know. Create in Sam a sense of inevitability or whatever?

Well, we don't, of course. But it certainly would open up a lot of interesting possibilities if it was true.

[ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com]

I'm still saying it. The John thing. I think it's like a background music in my head. :)

And yes, it would open possibilities but it might mix things up, leaving one more loose end. Interesting though.

[muridae-x.livejournal.com]

... unless you're me, in which case you really hope that he just reappeared somewhere else, at least for fic purposes.

I'm holding out for: the bargain he made was his life for Dean's. And then that same demon tried to kill Dean and the gates of hell were open so John was in a position to be able to pop up and remind the YED that it's just not proper to take a second swing at the target.

Maybe he'll turn up again when the RED comes to collect on her bargain with Dean? It really might depend on how carefully he worded his bargain, and whether it gave Dean more than a short term stay of execution at the beginning of season two. Perhaps that's all it was - those pesky demons haggle you down like crazy - but I'd like to think that maybe John got a little more out of the deal than the YED realised.

Sadly, I guess that the most likely protection he might have gained Dean would have been tied to that one specific demon he made the bargain with, but it's fun to speculate. And it was very nice to see John show up to see and participate in the ending of the retribution he started all those years ago.

[vaznetti]

Maybe he'll turn up again when the RED comes to collect on her bargain with Dean?

I like this idea, but of course I don't think that JDM will go back to the show, given the rate at which he seems to be doing films.

I'm holding out for: the bargain he made was his life for Dean's. And then that same demon tried to kill Dean and the gates of hell were open so John was in a position to be able to pop up and remind the YED that it's just not proper to take a second swing at the target.

I think this may well be part of it -- that and John's crazy willpower, keeping him there when the other souls were just flitting past.