Warning: I am so furious that I can barely see

[vaznetti]

One of the reasons I've been disturbed by the response to the post mamadeb made about the timing of the yuletide sign-ups is that it was exactly the kind of passive-aggressive, whiny, why-isn't-this-all-about-me? post I might make myself, if not on that precise topic. The response, frankly, seemed disproportionate to the content.

The other is... OK, that was how many days ago? Not all that many. And since then, there's been a certain amount of comment on the subject, some of it using words like "entitlement" and others using phrases like "suck it up." And in the meantime, a certain amount of straightforward anti-semitic content, and now someone went ahead and called someone else a kike. Anonymously, of course.

And I want to say that I'm surprised, and that I really don't think one thing led to the next, except that really, I wasn't, and really I do. And if you feel insulted by that, and think I'm calling you an anti-semite, maybe you should defriend me. Seriously. If you can't look at a post like this one, and see why the comments quoted are insulting and offensive... if you can't say "that was wrong," full stop, if you have to say, "that was wrong, but..." then you should defriend me.

I honestly don't care what kind of history you have with any of the people involved. This is about your history with me.

I'm thinking of a comment chopchica made on untrue_accounts' extremely sensible post on the original, yuletide issue, about how nervous Jews often are about posting on this issue, especially perhaps in contexts in which we're otherwise happy and secure, like fandom. We don't want to rock the boat. We don't want to find out what's lurking under the water. We don't want some anonymous fucktard to come along and call us a kike.

I understand that fear -- I mean, hey, it is my own fear! -- and at least in my part, it's based in distrust: my distrust of you, a group of people I know well and like very much. And you know, I don't want to distrust you. I don't want to feel like I can't speak my mind, or say that something makes me feel uncomfortable or excluded. I don't want to worry about what will happen if I seem too Jewish. I'm not too Jewish. I'm Jewish.

I'm really, really tempted to add, as a final line, "Suck it up," but I guess it would be hypocritical.

Comments

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

So, I think mamadeb was not wrong. I think more than a hundred messages basically saying, "your views are invalid and don't count," are just more evidence that she wasn't wrong.

My observation has been that there are a LOT of Jewish fans. The fact that the story exchange is called Yuletide, and that the timing makes it very difficult for jewish fans to participate, is NOT indicative of rabid fire-breathing swastika-painting anti-semiticism. But it IS indicative of that other, quieter, more passive "What do you care; this is not about you" exclusion of a lot of their neighbors, because, after all, they did call it Yuletide, which is a clear indicator of the expected guestlist. Maybe they don't even know that it's not just one or two people who expect an engraved invitation, but a lot of Jewish fans who find a way to participate anyway or who would participate if they did not feel excluded. Maybe the do know, and don't care, because they feel that even in the small world of fandom everything doesn't have to be about everybody.

But they are a part of fandom. I'd like to hope that the anonymous posters of vile and rabid anti-semitism are not part of fandom but are trolls who search out keywords on the net to spread their hate. But there are bad people everywhere, and we are not immune. It doesn't make us all bad people. But it surely does make one wary of one's neighbors

[vaznetti]

I think more than a hundred messages basically saying, "your views are invalid and don't count," are just more evidence that she wasn't wrong.

Yeah, this.

Well, the ironic thing is that IIRC the original organizers of Yuletide are Jewish; I mean, I've run at least two Secret Santa exchanges in Alias, both of which had "Santa" in the title. And in some ways it's harder to do Yuletide it you're celebrating Christmas -- I mean, in those years I'm away without access to a computer from at least the 23rd to the 27th, and even if I had a computer, I wouldn't have a lot of time to read fic!

But that doesn't remove the original point, that some Jews (and presumably Muslims and others, but not pagans) do feel excluded by the name and timing, and even more, that people who mention this, however tactlessly, are shouted down and told that their concerns don't matter.

I'd like to hope that the anonymous posters of vile and rabid anti-semitism are not part of fandom but are trolls who search out keywords on the net to spread their hate.

I wish that were true, but don't believe it for a moment. As you say, it makes one wary of one's neighbors.

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

"I'd like to hope that the anonymous posters of vile and rabid anti-semitism are not part of fandom but are trolls who search out keywords on the net to spread their hate."

"I wish that were true, but don't believe it for a moment. As you say, it makes one wary of one's neighbors."

If I can believe that Dean Winchester is not a misogynist, but using the trappings of misogyny to cover for a deep awe of-- and unmet need for strong ties with-- women that goes back to his losses as a child, I can believe that the bad people are all coming from outside, and the people inside are well meaning but occasionally thoughtless. Sometimes it is hard to maintain the illusion. Those are the days I figure, I could walk away. Reclaim my life. But I think, in general, people do try to be civil. The worst kerfluffles in fandom always seem to revolve around defining civil behavior.