television seen and unseen

[vaznetti]

I don't know if you're reading this, aceofkittens, but the Old 97s were mentioned, so of course I thought of you!

There's just so much to love in this show that I don't know where to start. OK, I do, because Julie and Tyra bonding is just about the best thing ever, so long as Julie doesn't get sucked into a life of crime, at least. I loved the little party at Matt's grandmother's house, and Tyra is just so wonderful, even though she makes Julie look like a midget. I like how they seem to have nothing in common, but actually complement each other really, really well.

It made perfect sense to me that Matt would lie. I mean, it was a stupid thing to do, but Matt's just a kid, and it's a dumb kid thing to do, to lie about something because you know it'll just upset the other person, even though you know they'll find out and be even more upset. And I like Matt, he's a nice kid, but it's really interesting to look at the social pressures on him, and the way they're shaping him into something he doesn't necessarily want to be.

You know, this thing with Smash is going to come back and bite everyone on the ass, right? Of course it will. But this is something I've wondered about -- I mean, there are plenty of reasons that it makes good sense for Smash to be the kid with the steroids storyline but part of me is just, does it have to be the black guy who ends up with the drug problem?

The thing with Tim and his father... actually could have been a lot worse. It was kind of low-key and realistic, I thought: that there was no huge dark secret there, just a father who was kind of a crap father, and who was trying not to be quite so bad at it, but in a one-step-up-two-steps-back kind of way.

I am not much interested in Jason and Lyla right now.

---

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that John home-schooled the boys for significant portions of their childhood. Not the whole time, certainly, but a lot of it. Especially if they were moving more than once a year and John wasn't holding down a steady job. I suspect that they both attended high school, but before that I think home schooling really makes the most sense.

Unless you assume that John was a distant, uncaring father, which I don't think is the case.

And I was also thinking about bringing John back on the show, and obviously how much I would like that. And this is my dream version of the scenario, that it actually happens pretty much without warning, just like it did in Season 1: that Sam and Dean walk into a room, and John steps out of the shadows with a gravelly "Hello, boys," or something near it. And then Dean steps forward and punches him in the jaw.

My happiness would be immeasurable if it happened like that. Immeasurable. Obviously, I'd be thrilled if it happened at all, but I am a sucker for that kind of parallelism.

Comments

I love this show so much

[k2daisy.livejournal.com]

Grandma's glee at getting her toenails painted and being part of a teenage girl's sleepover party was a absolute joy to watch. The 3 of them together were just great.

Also, the kid who told Coach to look out for him on the first day of practice in 2014 just about KILLED US DEAD.

ITA about Matt.

Hubby and I kept saying through the Tim/dad storyline: "This won't end well." But strangely, in the end, I felt the sorriest for Billy in that: he was trying so hard to protect Tim from getting hurt, and you could see through his anxiousness how badly their dad must have hurt *him*. (Also, did he get more puffy and beaten-down looking since the last time he was on? He looked TERRIBLE, in a totally realistic way.) And then when the dad didn't even ask about him until the day was almost over, but we had already heard how the dad had been avidly following Tim's career from afar... ouch. Considering Billy also tried to have a career in golf, clearly seeking his father's approval but not getting it in any way, and then the dad shows up for *Tim* and Billy has to grovel for a ticket for him, yeah, okay, so I think I have my favorite tertiary character! ;-)

The Coach/Jason scene in the courthouse was a nice one. I like how they keep reminding us of the strong bonds between those two, and how it goes both ways between them.

Re: I love this show so much

[vaznetti]

Also, the kid who told Coach to look out for him on the first day of practice in 2014 just about KILLED US DEAD.

Oh, me too. That whole scene was just perfect. And the little party, with Grandma getting her toes painted. Just perfect.

I felt for Billy, as well -- he's clearly been so badly hurt. And I wasn't totally clear on how that ended. Was the implication that Tim got him the extra ticket, or did he turn away?

Catching up on comments...

[k2daisy.livejournal.com]

And I wasn't totally clear on how that ended. Was the implication that Tim got him the extra ticket, or did he turn away?

I think they ended the scene before we saw the final decision (and will likely conclude it this week when we get back to the game), but I suspect Tim will get Dad into the stadium.

[cofax7]

And then Dean steps forward and punches him in the jaw.

Oh, that would be so *awesome*.

Except I'm sure there would still be some tears in there somehow.

[vaznetti]

Except I'm sure there would still be some tears in there somehow.

Well, that would come next -- tears and hugging. I just want that first moment, with the punch, so badly that I am thinking of writing it.

[minim_calibre]

Oh, you should!

[eponin10.livejournal.com]

Yes! Yes! Write it! *grin*

[veejane.livejournal.com]

I think the punching has to happen, because, generally speaking when people come back from the dead on this show it is Very Bad Indeedy.

..not that I would complain at all about Evil borrowing John Winchester's face for maximal angstification and "evil gets the best toys" type of hijinks. That goes double is there is sarcasm involved.

[phantomas.livejournal.com]

And then Dean steps forward and punches him in the jaw.

You know I ADORE john, right? That is exactly the scenario I am hoping for, too. The punching him in the jaw part; I still think will see some die-hard Dean action, the whole 'marching into Hell and slaughter each and every single one of you sonsofbitches' speech...or some ritual of one kind or another.

But the punching? I'm so going for it too. For both of them. Joy and happiness and fangirling squeeeees all around, if that were to happen, I tell you :D

[vaznetti]

I would love to see the march into hell and the ritual and all that, as well, but in a way I also want the parallel with Shadow and the appearence out of nowhere. But really, I will not be complaining as long as I get John back, one way or another.

But the punching? I'm so going for it too. For both of them.

I know. I mean, I love them both, but really, it's the best thing for them.

[veejane.livejournal.com]

The question of home-schooling is: who except the religious and deeply oddball had actually heard of such a thing, in the middle-80s? And I'm not sure I can see somebody like John Winchester plodding through seventh-grade biology problem sets with as inattentive a student as Dean. Patience isn't his strong suit, you know?

It's not impossible, and it would have freed up the family to move more often and keep under the radar more thoroughly (regulation of home-schooling being kind of -- spotty -- in those days). But, when I look at Sam's academic record, I tend to think it's unlikely.

[vaznetti]

But, when I look at Sam's academic record, I tend to think it's unlikely.

Hunh. I actually was trying to figure out how, if they were moving around so much, Sam would have managed the grades to get into Stanford -- I guess it helps that I've known people to pull off the equivalent after being home schooled. But a lot has to do with how often they moved, as kids -- more than once a year? were they settled between August and June? We just don't know. My feeling is that moving from one school district to another mid-year for a number of years would make Sam's record even harder to explain.

I do agree that John's not the obvious guy to pick up a task like that, or to be much good at it (I wouldn't be surprised if Sam were largely self-taught). I'm not sure it was all that unheard-of in the mid-80s, but that may just depend on where you grew up and in what kind of setting. It was weird, I agree, but not unheard-of.

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

I think they went to school a lot, but that between schools, or to make sure they were always caught up, Paster Jim did a lot of the home schooling for them. Not that dad was a hands-off dad. But I think he was more with the hunting skills and pastor jim did the book larnin.

[ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com]

Right now that "Hello, boys" drawl and the punch are sending me off to such a happy la-la land I find it hard to remember what I wanted to say to begin with.

Right.

Ok.

Yes. I think home schooled could work. Would work actually pretty well. John knows the basic I think (math, language, history), so if he got that foundation covered from an early age on, sure, maybe Sam did teach himself when he became a teenager.

I've been through a vaguely similar experience (no comparison to the Winchester way of life of course) and I guarantee you that my mum was probably the best teacher that I had.

[vaznetti]

Right now that "Hello, boys" drawl and the punch are sending me off to such a happy la-la land I find it hard to remember what I wanted to say to begin with.

Oh, I'm right there with you. That's why I had to share the image.

I know a few people who were homeschooled, and it seems to have worked out for them: a lot depends on the attitude of the parent, but John is obsessive and controlling enough that he might have managed it. I mean, it would have been an interesting education, no doubt, but it works for me.

[ultraviolet9a.livejournal.com]

That's why I had to share the image. And I'm very grateful for that. :)

I mean, it would have been an interesting education, no doubt, but it works for me. Now you send me to yet another happy la-la land where I actually visualize him teaching. (won't object to being the student, nope, no, won't.) That's just... goddamn.

And yes, I think he's perfectly capable of just that. *nod*

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

btw, and coming in late on a conversation that has fallen off the edge of the universe at work, I don't think Sam is lying to God, and I don't think his praying has anything to do with his current predicament about maybe demon-spawn. Maybe it was Jess got him started, or maybe he's done it since he was a kid, but he didn't sound like he was doing bargaining praying. He sounded like it was just there like a part of him for a long time. And even though I am not myself a religion person, I can see that for the character and it would add a layer to him that I would like, just as much as I like Dean's angrier rejection. They are the flip sides of the same coin, just like the boys.

[vaznetti]

I do see it working for the character as we have him; I just think that right now, Sam's conversations with God are not entirely on the level. Of course, Sam knows that and knows that God knows it too, so make of that what you will.

[eponin10.livejournal.com]

Though Sam's conversations with God at this point may very well all boil down to his one big fear: "Don't let me hurt Dean".

[vaznetti]

This also seems very true to me.

[camille-is-here.livejournal.com]

Yup, about Dean. But I think that Sam's relationship with God is a longstanding one, so God will get over it if Sam lies a little bit now.

[aliskye.livejournal.com]

Re: Supernatural, I think this is one of the things the writers dropped the ball on. That Sam has good enough grades to get into Stanford but apparently was either home-schooled or constantly in a new school. I'd love to have a definitive explanation for the disconnect but as I said, I think it's something they messed up on. (As writers often do, not being quite as obsessive with this stuff as the fans.)

[vaznetti]

I agree -- it's like unclear chronology, one of those things that just don't really work if you think too long about them.

I'm pretty happy to handwave this kind of thing, unless I can make character-related hay out of it for my own purposes. I do try to remember that episodic TV is produced under pressure -- under a varieties of different pressures, in fact! -- and that fans really are more obsessive than the writers, sometimes. (Although I do sometimes wish that production teams would make use of our obsessive behavior to avoid contradicting themselves!)

[eloise-bright.livejournal.com]

Oh, Fist to jaw, knock-out punch must happen. Dean has to. And John deserves it. I think he'd be expecting it - after leaving Dean with that little nugget of info on Sam.

There could be hugging or such afterwards, but yeah, I need to have Dean sock John in the jaw. And have Sam just stare at him in awed horror and admiration.

The home-schooling thing - hmm. It wasn't particularly popular in the 80s - and I don't see John having the patience, but I can imagine him setting them Latin and Greek to learn, and possibly studying legends and history books while researching cases. In my head, I think I attribute much of their learning to Pastor Jim - I hope they spent quite a bit of their childhood with him. The easy way Dean says that John dropped them off at Jim's after the Shtriga.

I think maybe as Dean got older, maybe John tended to base himself in one area, and then left to go on hunts, leaving Dean in charge - so they didn't move schools so much. Maybe once a year? I think the writers didn't really think it through - Sam being scholarship worthy makes a nice plot point, but it would have involved a very heavy workload and afterschool stuff too.

But yay for John back on the show. *nods*

[vaznetti]

I think the writers didn't really think it through - Sam being scholarship worthy makes a nice plot point, but it would have involved a very heavy workload and afterschool stuff too.

I think you're right about this -- the pieces don't add up, and each of us must fanwank it as we like best. And frankly, John could get them to learn (or even memorize) Latin and Greek, he could do all the other teaching they might need.

[aliskye.livejournal.com]

"I do try to remember that episodic TV is produced under pressure -- under a varieties of different pressures

Heh.....as well I know. I'm waiting right now for a script for a show that shoots on Monday.

I remember getting a copy of the Buffy "bible" once and being amazingly underwhelmed with the information that was in it. I totally agree the production teams should make use of the work of obsessive fans. (Actually I suspect that some of them do....I do sometimes myself.)

[vaznetti]

Heh.....as well I know. I'm waiting right now for a script for a show that shoots on Monday.

::winces::

But it's good to know all our hard work isn't completely going to waste!

[fufaraw]

"Sam and Dean walk into a room, and John steps out of the shadows with a gravelly "Hello, boys," or something near it. And then Dean steps forward and punches him in the jaw."

...Is there someplace I can go to vote for this?

I can't see John homeschooling--no patience, no love for the subjects, unless they were somehow related to hunting. But I can see Pastor Jim homeschooling them at least part of the time.

[vaznetti]

We should have a challenge, everyone putting forward their favorite John-comes-back scenario. And then send the results to Kripke!

Every time I think about that punch, I like it more. And I love John, and think Dean's opinion of the choice he made is more than a little unjust, but still, I want that punch. If Kripke really loves me, John will be bounced back into a wall or something, too.

[aceofkittens.livejournal.com]

From the Old 97's website (http://www.hitbyatrain.com):

In other news ripped from the headlines:

Old 97's schedule weeknight all-ages show — Teenage fans face conundrum

Or at least that's how it played on TV, as this week's Friday Night Lights featured a plot point which revolved around Julie's desire to go to an Old 97's show. On a school-night. So Ken, Murry, Philip, and Rhett, in the future, please schedule make-believe all-ages Old 97's concerts on a weekends, lest you continue to provoke family feuding on one of the better hours of prime-time television.

Oh my god. I may have to start watching this show. :)

[vaznetti]

Well, they don't actually get to the concert -- football intervenes! But it's a good show, despite that.