three whole scenes!

[vaznetti]

About those SPN directors-cut scenes...

I'm not actually surprised to hear that Sam prays every day, although my first thought was "Gee, Sam, do you lie to God, too?" He must be fairly quiet about it, for Dean not to notice it ever but ::handwave:: I do think Sam is engaged in a long-running bargaining session with God, which may or may not include attempts to con God into saving him, all of which have somehow been categorized in his head as "prayer."

So I guess my answer to the above question is, "Probably, yes." Or maybe Sam needs someone he can't lie to, I don't know.

Dean's refusal to believe is... OK, I don't really get the "God would never have let this happen, therefore God doesn't exist," line of thought. Is this something I need to explain? I guess it makes a little more sense if you're dealing with a supernatural evil, instead of the shitty things humans do to each other, but I still don't get how a person can look at the world and say, "I am so important that God ought to swoop down from Heaven and save me or this person that I love, and if God son't do it then God doesn't exist." It's an immature reaction, it seems to me, and it makes sense in this context for Dean, because the Dean who believes this is still a four year old boy whose life has literally just gone up in smoke.

In Faith, he did tell Layla he'd pray for her; I may need to ::handwave:: this, but I guess I'll wait until I've seen the episode.

Yay! Almost Thursday!

Comments

[luminosity]

I think Dean is really furious at the God he doesn't believe in.

[vaznetti]

See, now I feel stupid, but you're totally right about this.

[rez-lo.livejournal.com]

IAWTC. And I wonder about the whole God/Dad thing, you know?

[vaznetti]

And I wonder about the whole God/Dad thing, you know?

You, too, are making feel stupid for missing the completely obvious: you must be right about that.

[rez-lo.livejournal.com]

Kind of an automatic association thing, here, I'm afraid. I spent a good part of my churchgoing youth chanting silently "Not Daddy! Not Daddy!" every time the phrase "God the father" or "Heavenly father" was pronounced during the liturgy.

I must say, it was a relief to get that over with. Dean, man, call me. We'll talk. ;)

[vaznetti]

Hunh. I... missed that. Maybe not having a son in the liturgy helps, or maybe I just wasn't thinking.

I must say, it was a relief to get that over with. Dean, man, call me. We'll talk. ;)

Ha! You know Dean wants you to solve all his personal problems.

[se-parsons.livejournal.com]

Oh hell yes!

[aliskye.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah.....right on the money.

[minim_calibre]

Yes, this. (Has anyone ever done a hard rock cover of the XTC song?)

[cofax7]

Yup, I could go with that.

I had this convo with Veejane, I think, a few months ago, and we figured that Sam was basically an atheist of the intellectual school, Dean believed for pragmatic reasons (the power's gotta come from somewhere) but he didn't really trust God since he'd seen God fail so many people so many times, and John was really fucking angry at God.

This director's cut really threw a wrench into our breakdown. Pfeh.

[phantomas.livejournal.com]

What sockpuppet and rez_lo said :D

Though I SO want to know if he has kept his promise to Layla; Dean does keep his promises, but I want to see him struggle with this, trying to keep his thoughts on Layla and not to erupt into an angry tirade for all that he's furious about...

[vaznetti]

I will just sit here and feel unobservant; but I maintain that Sam is lying to God, full-time.

[phantomas.livejournal.com]

Oh, Sam has been lying to himself first and foremost for a long time, I think...I can't wait to see this episode, really. It tackles such a controversial issue and it should have some ties with Faith, it really should, if the continuity we've had in Nightshifter is anything to go about.

[tripoli.livejournal.com]

OK, I don't really get the "God would never have let this happen, therefore God doesn't exist

THANK YOU. Such a bullshit TV cop-out.

[vaznetti]

Does anyone really believe that? Anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together, I mean?

[barkley.livejournal.com]

I've heard it from people in grief. I'm not vouching for the more than two brain cells, but I am vouching for the, "I don't believe in God. There's no way he would let her lay like that in pain night after night," honest reaction from people (with a few more profanities strewn about in there for effect.)

And does Dean actually do more theological thinking than the average person? All of his supernatural beliefs are straight forward and follow rules and regulations. Rock salt here, silver there, Latin verses there. He's been brought up to do things, not to question them. They are the way they are, and has he been given any instance to regain the faith that was broken in him when he was four?

[vaznetti]

...I am vouching for the, "I don't believe in God. There's no way he would let her lay like that in pain night after night," honest reaction from people.

I guess in this context it makes sense to me, which is why it makes sense to me as well when Dean says it, because the Dean who believes this is the Dean who has just lost his mother. And no, I don't think he's had much reason to think through the implications of that statement (although how the line that he'll pray for Layla works in here, I don't know.)

I still find it distasteful from people who are not in immediate physical or emotional pain, but that's just me.