Supernatural 2x1, again
Sep. 29th, 2006 08:30 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
vaznettiSpoilers for the whole episode, as before. Don't click if you don't want to know.
I was struck by the parallel between John and Dean here: John bargaining with the demon while Dean tries to bargain with Death (I think I'll just give in go ahead and name her; easier than the whole Reaper confusion issue). Both of them, in the end, choosing to give up their lives to avoid causing harm to the people near them. At least, that's what I think Dean was going to do. he wouldn't become what he hunted: that's just not what Dean would do.
I'm still not doing well with John's death; I wasn't watching only for John, but he was a big part of my experience as a fan -- look at the fic I've written, and it's pretty much all about John, and, you know, fanfic is what I do. That's my fannish participation thing. But JDM knocked it out of the park, and this was how John had to die, and I really, really want to be able to be OK with it, because it was the best death he was going to get.
Somewhere in me there's a post on how John is such a Roman, and the boys just aren't. This isn't that post.
I have been mocking John a lot, especially for his dumb plans, but this episode redeemed that for me, because we got to see John the father and John the hunter all at once, in his scenes with the Demon. And I loved how confident he was, how you could see it in his face and his voice 9and what a contrast to the John of Salvation and Devil's Trap), and that he was the one the Demon wanted out of the way, not Dean. And of course in addition to his final speech ot Dean, the act of letting the Demon take him is the greatest evidence John can give of his faith in Dean -- because he gave up his life and his chance of getting revenge to keep Dean alive, because he knows that Dean can take care of Sam and kill the Demon too. I don't know if Dean will ever figure that out, what that meant.
I said once, somewhere that what Dean needs from John is some kind of incontestable proof that John loves him and is proud of him, and then for John to die; I don't know if this was enough for Dean, what happened here.
I sometimes think it might be; I mean, I don't think that at the end John laid a burden on Dean that Dean hadn't already taken on, of his own free will. A lot depends on what John whispered to him, that left Dean looking like that: the truth about the deal he'd made? what he knew about Sam? some other thing? Something he didn't want the Demon to hear?
I love that everything I thought was a lie was the truth -- that he was summoning the Demon for Dean's sake, and that he wasn't going to hunt it. That even for John, some things matter more than the hunt, more than revenge. And I think that it's no surprise that he chose to give up his life for Dean's, because all that he could see, I think, was the harm he'd done, Sam's anger and Dean's broken body and nothing to show for all that sorrow. So he did the only thing he could do, fixed the only thing he could fix. I wonder when, exactly, he decided to go through with it, and how soon he knew that he wasn't going to get out alive; the irony that he was almost certainly preparing himself to die, while he sat by Dean's bed and Dean's spirit railed at him, appeals to me.
I love that John let Sam's prejudices distract him, to keep Sam from figuring out what he was really doing. And of course at the end it really is too late to fix that, even though he tries. I think in some ways Sam is going to be more wrecked by Dean, in the short term, because he was still angry when he left that room, wasn't he? And that wasn't something John could fix, not without letting Sam know what he'd done. And Sam made his choice, damn it, that he'd do whatever it took to keep his family alive -- and then John took that choice away from him.
I love how smart John was, how much he knew. I may need to rethink the character, a little, because the one thing I've always thought about John is that his reactions are determined by the short-term, not the long-term, so that he tends to reel from one crisis to the next; but this John has clearly been capable of holding things back, waiting and planning. Not in making the deal, which is another short-term fix, but in whatever the thing with Sam is, that mystery. And is that what he told Dean? It would depend what the secret is, I think.
Oh, John. Oh, John. You did what it took; you did good.
I'm still not handling this all that well.
Later on, I'll post a bit of Egyptian poetry; it's at the office, and I'm typing this at home.
I was struck by the parallel between John and Dean here: John bargaining with the demon while Dean tries to bargain with Death (I think I'll just give in go ahead and name her; easier than the whole Reaper confusion issue). Both of them, in the end, choosing to give up their lives to avoid causing harm to the people near them. At least, that's what I think Dean was going to do. he wouldn't become what he hunted: that's just not what Dean would do.
I'm still not doing well with John's death; I wasn't watching only for John, but he was a big part of my experience as a fan -- look at the fic I've written, and it's pretty much all about John, and, you know, fanfic is what I do. That's my fannish participation thing. But JDM knocked it out of the park, and this was how John had to die, and I really, really want to be able to be OK with it, because it was the best death he was going to get.
Somewhere in me there's a post on how John is such a Roman, and the boys just aren't. This isn't that post.
I have been mocking John a lot, especially for his dumb plans, but this episode redeemed that for me, because we got to see John the father and John the hunter all at once, in his scenes with the Demon. And I loved how confident he was, how you could see it in his face and his voice 9and what a contrast to the John of Salvation and Devil's Trap), and that he was the one the Demon wanted out of the way, not Dean. And of course in addition to his final speech ot Dean, the act of letting the Demon take him is the greatest evidence John can give of his faith in Dean -- because he gave up his life and his chance of getting revenge to keep Dean alive, because he knows that Dean can take care of Sam and kill the Demon too. I don't know if Dean will ever figure that out, what that meant.
I said once, somewhere that what Dean needs from John is some kind of incontestable proof that John loves him and is proud of him, and then for John to die; I don't know if this was enough for Dean, what happened here.
I sometimes think it might be; I mean, I don't think that at the end John laid a burden on Dean that Dean hadn't already taken on, of his own free will. A lot depends on what John whispered to him, that left Dean looking like that: the truth about the deal he'd made? what he knew about Sam? some other thing? Something he didn't want the Demon to hear?
I love that everything I thought was a lie was the truth -- that he was summoning the Demon for Dean's sake, and that he wasn't going to hunt it. That even for John, some things matter more than the hunt, more than revenge. And I think that it's no surprise that he chose to give up his life for Dean's, because all that he could see, I think, was the harm he'd done, Sam's anger and Dean's broken body and nothing to show for all that sorrow. So he did the only thing he could do, fixed the only thing he could fix. I wonder when, exactly, he decided to go through with it, and how soon he knew that he wasn't going to get out alive; the irony that he was almost certainly preparing himself to die, while he sat by Dean's bed and Dean's spirit railed at him, appeals to me.
I love that John let Sam's prejudices distract him, to keep Sam from figuring out what he was really doing. And of course at the end it really is too late to fix that, even though he tries. I think in some ways Sam is going to be more wrecked by Dean, in the short term, because he was still angry when he left that room, wasn't he? And that wasn't something John could fix, not without letting Sam know what he'd done. And Sam made his choice, damn it, that he'd do whatever it took to keep his family alive -- and then John took that choice away from him.
I love how smart John was, how much he knew. I may need to rethink the character, a little, because the one thing I've always thought about John is that his reactions are determined by the short-term, not the long-term, so that he tends to reel from one crisis to the next; but this John has clearly been capable of holding things back, waiting and planning. Not in making the deal, which is another short-term fix, but in whatever the thing with Sam is, that mystery. And is that what he told Dean? It would depend what the secret is, I think.
Oh, John. Oh, John. You did what it took; you did good.
I'm still not handling this all that well.
Later on, I'll post a bit of Egyptian poetry; it's at the office, and I'm typing this at home.
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no subject
Date: 2006-09-29 10:45 pm (UTC)I started thinking of you from about halfway through the episode, when the dreadful sinking feeling started in my stomach as I connected what John was saying and doing with how they were going to get Dean back from hovering-on-the-brink-of-death. Maybe I'm naturally suspicious; but I didn't think for more than about two seconds that he might be after the demon rather than doing everything to bring Dean back, mainly because it was Sam who accused him of it. Sometimes they're right about each other, but more often they're utterly utterly wrong.
So, yeah, from the moment that John started making plans for demon summoning, I thought it had to be for Dean. And the gun was never going to be enough. I get the feeling that, even when he was negotiating so fearlessly in the basement he knew it wasn't going to be enough, but he tried it just because he wasn't ready to quit on his mission any more than he was on his son.
Whatever it was he whispered to Dean, it was a passing on of the responsibility, both for the hunt and for the family. And he did make the best attempt at saying a proper goodbye and speaking all the unspoken things to Dean. At that moment he was very much the favoured son.
I think my favourite moment of the show was when Dean realised the truth of how he'd become what he'd spent his life hunting, if he took his refusal to give up beyond a certain point. It is one of the things I like about the show; its capacity to embrace that kind of shade of grey. The monsters have motivations too, and they could so easily be us, if we let them in.
no subject
Date: 2006-09-30 12:26 am (UTC)Thanks for thinking of me. At least nothing will ever be as meaningless as the Unfortunate Incident: this is how John would have wanted to die, if he couldn't die destroying the demon. I was in such a state of denial, though, that I didn't see what was obviously coming until it was far too late.
I loved that he tried to trade the gun anyway, even though you're right, it was never going to be enough. Oh, John.
no subject
Date: 2006-09-30 10:04 am (UTC)Whereas the Unfortunate Incident was just... wasteful. Everybody lost, whether it be life, self-respect, or a potential source of information.
*sigh* Yes, I'm still bitter.