vaznetti: (bloody hands)
[personal profile] vaznetti

So that was defnintely something. I'm not sure what, but something. Where even to start?

You can count me among the many many people who didn't like the way Daenerys' arc went down. Not that she couldn't have gone the way she did, but there was no character development between killing a bunch of slaveowners who have just been crucifying children and Dothraki khals who want to kill her and torching all of King's Landing like she's riding a giant flaming lawnmower. A lot of the writing in this episode struck me as being an overt attempt to sell the story the writers were telling irrespective of their ability to tell that story, and Tyrion's speech to Jon definitely fell into that category. The gap in the logic is still there, and what little character development their was remains entirely circular: the best reading I can come up with is that Daenerys wasn't insane to start with, but she became more and more so because everyone kept treating her like she was already dangerous and evil. I mean, Varys was trying to poison her, by the end there. It's not paranoia when your advisors are actually plotting against you, but even that doesn't explain her decision to torch King's Landing.

What I thought was going to happen in episode 5 was something like this: Tyrion sets Jaime free to rescue Cersei and tells him to make them ring the bells to surrender. Jaime reaches Cersei, and she somehow uses this bit of information to trap Daenerys and massacre some of her forces, and this betrayal is what tips Dany into whole-sale slaughter. But no, instead she just randomly decided to wipe the city out, because she is a Targaryen and that's what they do, even before she's learned that Tyrion betrayed her.

Unless they're named Jon, I guess. As an aside, I still don't understand what the rationale for Grey Worm not executing Jon and Tyrion immediately was: it doesn't really make sense for him. I get that it might be too late by the time the committee meeting takes place, when the other lords of Westeros have had a chance to collect their armies, but at the moment of Dany's death Grey Worm definitely has military superiority, and also has no fucks left to give.

I just want to note that every time Dany has tried to compromise it has ended badly for her, so it's perfectly possible to see her decide to throw compromise ot the winds and torch all her enemies, and lots of other people too. The show just never actually laid sufficient groundwork for it.

That's kind of the running theme this season, though, isn't it? The same is true of Sansa's hostility to Daenerys, and her insistance on the political independence of the North -- even though they certainly do need Dany's help to defeat the Others. I never thought I would be dissatisfied by an ending where Sansa got crowned Queen in the North, and yet here I am.

The other most WTF thing of all is of course Bran and his sudden ascendency. Again it was pretty obvious that Tyrion was speaking for the showrunners when he started talking about how important story is, but it was pretty weird that he decided to focus on a guy whose story is notoriously boring. (I did love the looks of increasing amazement on both Sansa and Arya's faces: this is the guy whose story is the most interesting? really) I mean, even Gendry has a better story and he spent a couple of seasons on a rowboat.

So this is what I think. It is true that the show and the books have been trailing hints that Daenerys might be an antagonist in the end, but they've been doing the same for Bran as well, and I think that's the best explanation. Bran used himself as bait in Winterfell to weaken Daenerys' forces (note that the Dothraki and Unsullied took the brunt of the fighting), and encouraged both Sam and Sansa to question Dany's right and fitness to rule. He ensured that Sansa and Arya would know that Jon was the legitimate heir, in full knowledge that Sansa would be likely to push for Jon to stake his claim and that Arya would kill anyone who threatened him.

Then Dany heads south to get rid of Cersei and Jaime, removing one obstacle (and mind control by Bran might explain Jaime's apparent change of heart towards Brienne). Sansa has told Tyrion about Jon's true heritage, and he shares that with Varys, and between the two of them they start to drive Dany into greater and greater paranoia. Eventually she snaps, and eventually Tyrion manages to persuade Jon to kill her. I'm not entirely sure whether Tyrion is actually working with Bran, or whether he is being manipulated by him.

Bran might have expected Jon to be killed, either by Drogon or by Dany's supporters, but no matter what he knows that Jon doesn't want to rule and will accept exile rather than kingship, thus leaving the road clear for Tyrion to put Bran forward for the throne, and for everyone to go ahead and agree even though he's hardly done anything even remotely kingly in the entire series, or at least not since Theon torched Winterfell. Bran then reveals that this was his plan all along with that line about why he came South.

And note that in the final scene Bran comes in to the council to reveal that he is going to try to find Drogon with his three-eyed-crow powers; obviously his plan is to bring Drogon back to serve as his weapon and ensure that he is unchallenged (since otherwise Dorne at least is likely to want to follow the North's example and claim independence).

If only his eyes had flashed blue at the end, alas. He is like the evil version of Charles Xavier.


Anyway, at least it's over now. The end.

Date: 2019-05-21 03:42 pm (UTC)
rozarka: (got: daenerys stormborn)
From: [personal profile] rozarka
I've only followed along reading episode reviews and tumblr reactions since the show continued where the books stop. And am pretty glad I never invested anything in the TV show, now. But I really dislike what they've done with Daenerys! She was one of my faves and I wouldn't have enjoyed that development no matter how well they built up to it, but judging by reactions I've seen, it seems they just suddenly made her mad (and stupid into the bargain). I prefer your villain!Bran interpretation, even if I'm fuzzy on all the details.

Mostly I just want to read the two unwritten books. Even more, now.

Date: 2019-05-23 03:22 pm (UTC)
rozarka: (got: dancing lessons)
From: [personal profile] rozarka
Yeah, I think her conviction that Targaryens are destined to rule Westeros gives me some pause in the books, but I sure as hell want her to end up ruling SOMETHING, if not (all the) seven kingdoms. Bran and Tyrion, seriously, was that the most striking end game that they could think of?

I'm also unhappy about Jaime and Brienne; why even go there just to immediately undo it. Knighting her would be enough of a declaration on its own. I feel he'd earned a better end, too. Even Cersei had earned a less pitiful end! But as far as I'm concerned none of it happened this way (except Sansa as Queen in the North).

Date: 2019-05-21 05:00 pm (UTC)
rachelmanija: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rachelmanija
I like the villain Bran theory. It's the only thing that makes that WTF king selection make sense.

Date: 2019-05-21 07:28 pm (UTC)
maidenjedi: (polar bear)
From: [personal profile] maidenjedi
I am totally down for the Bran-is-the-Big-Bad theory, but even there, they could have done so much more to lend it some credence - like the blue eyes idea! I've wondered for a long time if Bran and the Night King switched bodies, for example. What if they did, and Bran's officially gone or trapped in a bird somewhere because of Arya, and now the Night King rules Westeros after all? It at least sets up a plausible way that this was in no way a happy ending for anyone, and gives the Night King storyline the weight it always should have had. (It also means we ended on a bit of a cliffhanger, because either option for Azor Ahai is now off the grid - or, it's not a cliffhanger, it's just the unhappy ending we were promised).

It's over, but I can't help fiddling with it in my mind for now. I'm sure that'll pass.

(I'm also amazed that my polar bear icon from Lost really just keeps giving....)
Edited Date: 2019-05-21 07:36 pm (UTC)

Date: 2019-05-22 06:30 pm (UTC)
maidenjedi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] maidenjedi
I tell ya, in the last few days, you can tell who were the X-Files fans in the day and who were not.

Date: 2019-05-26 03:53 pm (UTC)
maidenjedi: (what i like)
From: [personal profile] maidenjedi
Ha! You know, I was thinking about doing the same. I'm sure we wouldn't be alone in that assertion.

Date: 2019-05-22 04:47 pm (UTC)
aceofkittens: (bittersweet)
From: [personal profile] aceofkittens
I'm so exhausted from ranting and railing about the show for weeks. I never thought I'd be glad that it's over. I've been invested in this universe for so long, but GRRM will never finish the books. :( There's a big difference between bitttersweet and bitter CRAP and what we got was a big serving of bitter SHIT.

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