Just to say that I am in the midst of shifting households *today*, but I will be back to this later, because I want to answer your comment thoughtfully, and that, in particular, I thank you for this:
an even more inexact example, but I'm trying to help, here: it's also something like how I imagine you and others on LJ feel when anyone at the liberal end of the spectrum "speaks for everyone."
It's not an exact example, no, (and not just because it's still not widely acceptable to say 'I'd rather cross the street than have to say hello to a Jew' on lj *g*) but that you acknowledge the existance of that type of exclusion/bias goes a tremendously long way to increasing my goodwill in this discussion (already pretty high towards you, and I hope you know that) and it *does* serve well as a meeting point of "this is how/why this makes me feel bad".
I think a lot of IBAR, because of the focus and tone of the debate, forces the discussion *away* from those points of commonality that otherwise would serve the discussion well. (The concept of bigotry towards Jews being one of those that I saw was expressly *excluded* from discussion.) I thank you for letting us - you and me - have a (somewhat) common meeting place.
While I'm at it - does this passage read like you intended it to?
I wouldn't wish anyone who isn't Jewish a happy new year this week, any more than I would've wished someone from Japan happy new year this past February. I've been dancing around saying this, but it's insulting, frankly, in a way that I'm not sure anyone who isn't the majority could understand.
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timeasmymeasure
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Date: 2007-09-11 12:24 am (UTC)an even more inexact example, but I'm trying to help, here: it's also something like how I imagine you and others on LJ feel when anyone at the liberal end of the spectrum "speaks for everyone."
It's not an exact example, no, (and not just because it's still not widely acceptable to say 'I'd rather cross the street than have to say hello to a Jew' on lj *g*) but that you acknowledge the existance of that type of exclusion/bias goes a tremendously long way to increasing my goodwill in this discussion (already pretty high towards you, and I hope you know that) and it *does* serve well as a meeting point of "this is how/why this makes me feel bad".
I think a lot of IBAR, because of the focus and tone of the debate, forces the discussion *away* from those points of commonality that otherwise would serve the discussion well. (The concept of bigotry towards Jews being one of those that I saw was expressly *excluded* from discussion.) I thank you for letting us - you and me - have a (somewhat) common meeting place.
While I'm at it - does this passage read like you intended it to?
I wouldn't wish anyone who isn't Jewish a happy new year this week, any more than I would've wished someone from Japan happy new year this past February. I've been dancing around saying this, but it's insulting, frankly, in a way that I'm not sure anyone who isn't the majority could understand.
- hg