Oops...

[vaznetti]

So instead of interfering in those other debates, I followed a link in debc's journal to this very good essay by alara_r on original characters and the dreaded Mary Sue label.

Let me say here what I said there. Whatever the technical definition of a Mary Sue, I feel that its use as a bludgeon to discourage the insertion of original characters into fanfic represents a real problem. I would like to see the question "Is this a Mary Sue?" replaced by a more useful question. Perhaps, "Is this a well-rounded, interesting character whose presence in the story contributes to the storyline and the canon universe?"

I don't deny that there are many crappy stories with OCs in them out there. But there are also a lot of crappy slash and het stories out there using only canon characters. There is in fact a lot of crap out there. Deal with it.

Good stories with OCs are not easy, precisely because the author can't take it for granted that the audience cares about the OCs. It's the author's job to make that happen, and the only way to learn to do that is to practice. The use of "Mary Sue" as a slap against all kinds of OCs discourages that process. I think that's a shame. Mileage may vary.

Comments

[muridae-x.livejournal.com]

I think it's a shame too. I like original characters, and don't find them undeserving of a place in fanfic. I guess there are fandoms where you could get away without having them, because there's a big enough ensemble cast in the show that you can plausibly have them interact with each other without need for anything else. But even with a show like Voyager, where the entire cast are stranded together on one smallish spaceship, you need to have them encounter external threats from time to time - which involves creating OC aliens. On something like the X-Files you need new cases for Mulder and Scully to investigate - which involves creating OC victims, suspects, law enforcement, whatever - or you need to go behind the scenes of the conspiracy - which involves creating OC people for the known few like Krycek, Marita, CSM to interact with. Because Mulder and Scully have barely scratched the surface of that world.

Well, okay, maybe "need" is the wrong word. But if you contrive to do without external challenges - which definitely require new people to pose them - then you're faced with making the point of the story something internal to the principle characters it centres on, which can be a little incestuous. It also makes it very difficult to make your story look or feel different from writer X's story about the same principle characters, also about romantic schmoop/angst/navel gazing.

Generally speaking the stories that I remember and go back to are the ones that offer me meatier reading. A wider landscape. Interesting characters and situations. Actual plots. And they're very difficult to achieve without at least a few original characters scattered around the landscape. None of whom need actually be a Mary Sue at all, except in as much as they're all an extension of their author at some level.

The more OC's the merrier, from my point of view. If you have a few new characters to share the necessary plot driving interaction around amongst, there's no need for any of them to be superbeings since they can cover each others strengths and weak spots. :-)

[vaznetti]

But if you contrive to do without external challenges - which definitely require new people to pose them - then you're faced with making the point of the story something internal to the principle characters it centres on, which can be a little incestuous.

And at times, a little repetitive, particularly as a fandom ages. The stories which hook me now are the ones that offer something new: I've read my fill of Mulder/Krycek first times, for instance.

I think that some fandoms have more room for main-character OCs than others (and that's where the "Mary Sue" label is most often applied, rather than to, say, the OC players in a casefile), and some characters have more room in their lives. As I said in my comment on Alara's essay, it doesn't make sense to give Scully a "best friend": if she had one, we'd know about it from canon. But I see no structural reason not to invent OCs to people, say, Marita's emotional landscape. Sure, I'd have to do a bit of work to make my readers understand why I'd put such a character into a story, but if I had a reason for doing so I'd do it.

Generally speaking the stories that I remember and go back to are the ones that offer me meatier reading. A wider landscape.

Which is one thing main character or viewpoint OCs are great for. Obviously, not everyone is interested in that kind of story: some people really do want more of the same thing, the same characters, over and over. That's perfectly natural. Not everyone reads the same stories. I, for example, read no Sentinal fic and almost no Due South fic. It's not that I think those fandoms are no good, it's just that I'm not interested. Luckily, fandom is big enough for all of us.

This may be kind of incoherent and ranty.

My mom's making me marry Mary Sue...

[aceofkittens.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the essay yet, though I hope it mentions Paula Smith! :)

However, I just had this thought about online gaming (MUSHing in particular), which was that in non media-based games, it's basically all about the OC -- an OC that takes on a deeply layered life of its own. There are Buffy and Harry Potter MUSHes, where they have FC (feature characters) from the books. I don't know how those games are run/administered, and if the FCs interact with the "little people." In a World of Darkness game, such as the one I help run (telnet masq.org 9999 -- hint hint), there are no "canon" FCs, so everyone wants to be center stage. And it's definitely not a "24" sort of place despite the way it's meant to be played -- it's almost impossible to have a villainous character, and you can see my rant on the topic right over here (http://www.possessed.net/~endora/evilpcs.html).

My point, were I to have one, would be: it's all an exercise in creativity. Who's to say one thing is better than another? But sadly, this is not a rhetorical question.

Vanzetti, get on ICQ. :P