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vaznettiA little more thinking about John in In My Time of Dying, coming off ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
researchgrrrl's really excellent post about the basement scene, and some of the comments on my last post on the episode.
In the past I've been more than a little unconvinced about John's ability to play a long game; a lot of his reactions seem to be based on getting out of whatever crisis he happens to be in at the time, with little thought for the longer term implications. Of course he's determined and focused -- he's dedicated his life to hunting a demon, and even the fact that there's been no trace of it for 22 years doesn't distract him. Once it comes back, he's ready to move. But on the other side you have the Fake Colt Plan, which really is the worst plan in the history of plans, even though he nearly pulls it off. And I guess I should have realized how important that "nearly" is.
But what strikes me here is that asresearchgrrrl points out, John is doing some very serious shit down in that basement (except that she puts it better, and has evidence to back it up), and to be able to do that with the kind of confidence he shows, and make it work, requires (I'm fairly sure) a lot of study and preparation. And I am beginning to think that John may be a better long-term planner than I originally took him for, in part because of what she has to say about the symbol he's using.
I was also thinking about some of the correspondences between Dean and John in the episode -- most obviously, with regard to the title, which appears to be a reference to Dean; but in fact it's not, in the end, Dean who dies. And I was thinking about the way the script plays with our expectations -- so that we (well, I, at least) assumed that John was lying, when he was really telling the truth. There was a lot of misdirection mixed in with all the foreshadowing. And it occurred to me -- that Dean thinks he's hunting here, but he's actually the hunted, because the reaper is here to kill him -- and John claims that he's not hunting, and seems to be telling the truth, but may not be telling all of it. What Dean says about the reaper, before he knows what it is, is "I can touch it. And if I can touch it, I can kill it." And the only reason he can touch it is that he's hanging between life and death.
So. I think that we still don't know the full terms of the deal between John and the Demon. It looked like a simple trade, John's life, the Colt, the bullet, for Dean's life. But I don't think the Demon is really through with John. (I actually assumed that what it wanted was John's body -- oh, shut up, as a host -- but that might be the one thing John wouldn't agree to. But that's part of why his death was a surprise to me, more than it should have been.) And I'd like to think that John isn't through with the Demon. I'd like to think that part of what he's doing, by putting himself in its power, is getting close enough to kill it, while he's in a state which makes him able to do just that. If he can touch it, he can kill it. It would be -- in my opinion -- marvelous if that was what he whispered to Dean at the end. It would be crazy and risky and suicidally reckless, and that's John all over.
I like the idea that John is doing two things at once -- saving Dean and putting himself in a position to destroy the Demon. On the one hand, it does take away from the purity of John's sacrifice, if he isn't giving up his revenge for Dean, but John's not a particularly pure guy, in my opinion, and it does introduce yet another layer of complexity into his relationship with his sons. John is ruthless -- with everyone around him, but with himself most of all, and he'd go ahead and do this, knowing how much of a betrayal it would seem to Dean and Sam, if they ever found out about it, but willing to make that sacrifice if it served his purpose. As for the question of why he didn't do something like this before -- well, it's possible that John learned something about the Demon while it had his body.
And you know this might all be wishful thinking. But I stand by the notion that we don't know the full extent of the deal John meant, and I stand by the idea that John would have the knowledge, ruthlessness and sheer bloodyminded willpower to come up with a plan like this and pull it off.
Why is TV so much more interesting than the work I'm supposed to be doing today? Why?
Also ::waving at new people:: Hi!
researchgrrrl's really excellent post about the basement scene, and some of the comments on my last post on the episode.In the past I've been more than a little unconvinced about John's ability to play a long game; a lot of his reactions seem to be based on getting out of whatever crisis he happens to be in at the time, with little thought for the longer term implications. Of course he's determined and focused -- he's dedicated his life to hunting a demon, and even the fact that there's been no trace of it for 22 years doesn't distract him. Once it comes back, he's ready to move. But on the other side you have the Fake Colt Plan, which really is the worst plan in the history of plans, even though he nearly pulls it off. And I guess I should have realized how important that "nearly" is.
But what strikes me here is that as
researchgrrrl points out, John is doing some very serious shit down in that basement (except that she puts it better, and has evidence to back it up), and to be able to do that with the kind of confidence he shows, and make it work, requires (I'm fairly sure) a lot of study and preparation. And I am beginning to think that John may be a better long-term planner than I originally took him for, in part because of what she has to say about the symbol he's using.I was also thinking about some of the correspondences between Dean and John in the episode -- most obviously, with regard to the title, which appears to be a reference to Dean; but in fact it's not, in the end, Dean who dies. And I was thinking about the way the script plays with our expectations -- so that we (well, I, at least) assumed that John was lying, when he was really telling the truth. There was a lot of misdirection mixed in with all the foreshadowing. And it occurred to me -- that Dean thinks he's hunting here, but he's actually the hunted, because the reaper is here to kill him -- and John claims that he's not hunting, and seems to be telling the truth, but may not be telling all of it. What Dean says about the reaper, before he knows what it is, is "I can touch it. And if I can touch it, I can kill it." And the only reason he can touch it is that he's hanging between life and death.
So. I think that we still don't know the full terms of the deal between John and the Demon. It looked like a simple trade, John's life, the Colt, the bullet, for Dean's life. But I don't think the Demon is really through with John. (I actually assumed that what it wanted was John's body -- oh, shut up, as a host -- but that might be the one thing John wouldn't agree to. But that's part of why his death was a surprise to me, more than it should have been.) And I'd like to think that John isn't through with the Demon. I'd like to think that part of what he's doing, by putting himself in its power, is getting close enough to kill it, while he's in a state which makes him able to do just that. If he can touch it, he can kill it. It would be -- in my opinion -- marvelous if that was what he whispered to Dean at the end. It would be crazy and risky and suicidally reckless, and that's John all over.
I like the idea that John is doing two things at once -- saving Dean and putting himself in a position to destroy the Demon. On the one hand, it does take away from the purity of John's sacrifice, if he isn't giving up his revenge for Dean, but John's not a particularly pure guy, in my opinion, and it does introduce yet another layer of complexity into his relationship with his sons. John is ruthless -- with everyone around him, but with himself most of all, and he'd go ahead and do this, knowing how much of a betrayal it would seem to Dean and Sam, if they ever found out about it, but willing to make that sacrifice if it served his purpose. As for the question of why he didn't do something like this before -- well, it's possible that John learned something about the Demon while it had his body.
And you know this might all be wishful thinking. But I stand by the notion that we don't know the full extent of the deal John meant, and I stand by the idea that John would have the knowledge, ruthlessness and sheer bloodyminded willpower to come up with a plan like this and pull it off.
Why is TV so much more interesting than the work I'm supposed to be doing today? Why?
Also ::waving at new people:: Hi!
