vaznetti | (no subject)

So I have seen Rome 2x06, and will have to think about it and let it settle. As usual they did some things well and some things... not so well. But when you're working against history and Plutarch and Shakespeare, I suppose you won't always come off well in comparison.

47.8 The place [Caieta, where Cicero had a villa] has also a temple of Apollo, a little above the sea. From thence a flock of crows flew with loud clamour towards the vessel of Cicero as it was rowed towards land; and alighting on either end of the sail-yard, some cawed, and others pecked at the ends of the ropes, and everybody thought that the omen was bad. Nevertheless Cicero landed, and going to his villa lay down to rest. Then most of the crows perched themselves about the window, cawing tumultuously, but one of them flew down upon the couch where Cicero lay with muffled head, and with its beak, little by little, tried to remove the garment from his face. The servants, on seeing this, rebuked themselves for waiting to be spectators of their master's murder, while wild beasts came to his help and cared for him in his undeserved misfortune, but they themselves did nothing in his defence. So partly by entreaty, and partly by force, they took him and carried him in his litter towards the sea.

48 But meantime his assassins came to the villa, Herennius a centurion, and Popillius a tribune, who had once been prosecuted for parricide and defended by Cicero; and they had helpers. After they had broken in the door, which they found closed, Cicero was not to be seen, and the inmates said they knew not where he was. Then, we are told, a youth who had been liberally educated by Cicero, and who was a freedman of Cicero's brother Quintus, Philologus by name, told the tribune that the litter was being carried through the wooded and shady walks towards the sea. The tribune, accordingly, taking a few helpers with him, ran round towards the exit, but Herennius hastened on the run through the walks, and Cicero, perceiving him, ordered the servants to set the litter down where they were. Then he himself, clasping his chin with his left hand, as was his wont, looked steadfastly at his slayers, his head all squalid and unkempt, and his face wasted with anxiety, so that most of those that stood by covered their faces while Herennius was slaying him. For he stretched his neck forth from the litter and was slain, being then in his sixty-fourth year. Herennius cut off his head, by Antony's command, and his hands — the hands with which he wrote the Philippics...

49 When Cicero's extremities were brought to Rome, it chanced that Antony was conducting an election, but when he heard of their arrival and saw them, he cried out, "Now let our proscriptions have an end." Then he ordered the head and hands to be placed over the ships' beaks on the p209rostra, a sight that made the Romans shudder; for they thought they saw there, not the face of Cicero, but an image of the soul of Antony. (Life of Cicero, 47.8-49.2)

To be fair, I didn't dislike the scene -- Pullo and Cicero, the way they did it, with the peaches and Tiro breaking down. But I would have preferred it to be Vorenus; if somenone was going to destroy the Republic, it should have been Vorenus, who would have known what he was doing.

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I think the parallel of Octavian to Vorenus is very strong in this episode - Octavian also doesn't get his hands dirty (he kills no one himself, not even in the battle), just as Vorenus only orders the deaths of others, and attempts to "restore the Republic" with fish and bread (as Octavian will do with empty pieties later.) And this is why it had to be Pullo who actually put the knife in Cicero's throat.

I have very mixed feelings about this episode, but I too have to mull over them some more.

I do like the way Vorenus and Octavian were paralleled here -- it was unexpected -- and that necessitated Vorenus keeping his hands clean. I guess I expected him to be present, though, in the same way that Octavian is present at Philippi even though he has no hand in what happens. (I do rather wish that Octavian had been sick in his tent, if only for the humor of it.)

Hmm, I think they chose Pullo precisely because he wouldn't realise the significance of his killing of Cicero. I mean, to some extent, that's the theme of the show, right? to have all these supposedly insignificant people changing history and setting up historical events in their attempt to lead their daily life, to do their job.

I guess so -- but the whole thing was just a little too much, if you know what I mean. With the picnic and everything, it seemed a little too over the top, even for Pullo, who after all does take killing people seriously, or used to.

Forgive my lateness - I just now got around to catching up (darn teaching, getting in the way of good televsion!). Anyway, when I saw Pullo returning, with the bag and the announcement of peaches!, I was sure that he was going to, um, hand over, the wrong bag. Which would have been ghastly, of course, but somehow might have been more compelling. Or something.

and his hands — the hands with which he wrote the Philippics...

Wahhhhh! That always makes me sniffle, it's just so understated yet poignant. It almost made me appreciate the Philippics when I was struggling with translating them in Latin class - many, many years ago.

It's rather chilling, isn't it? The head and hands up their on the rostra, and Antony thinking that now there will be no more words -- but even dead he still speaks.

up "there." And I tell my students to proofread!

Oh, that section of Plutarch!

I am curious, though - I did a Classics minor, which is to say that I know enough to know that I don't actually know anything - I thought that the Republic was pretty well unrecoverable by the time the second triumvirate got underway? I seem to have this idea that the establishment of the Principate was a good thing, as it made the government of Rome and it's holdings manageable again? Er?

I think it's always tempting to read history backward, as if what happened was somehow inevitable. I think that's something to be avoided, myself. To be fair, the Senate was pretty much incapable of government (since by "the republic" we really mean "Senatorial government") by 31, but in 44 the situation wasn't quite as dire, although still pretty bad; it's possible that killing Antony would have swung the balance. And I'm not sure autocracy was the only option, in the face of the Senate's inability to govern.

People in the provinces were probably happier to have the Principate, since the officials they got under the Republic were notorious for tax-gouging.

Thank you for the explanation! :) As you say, it's good to remember that history was happening "live", as it were.

This is probably a stupid question, but how autocratic was the Principate, really? I mean, it probably varied from Emperor to Emperor, but the empire was so big! Wouldn't he have been largely a CEO, or something? And as such, no more autocratic than the President of the US, or something?

... to answer my own question, I suppose the main issue would be getting the office and the succession, huh?

Well, the practical difficulties in administering anything as large as the Roman empire was were pretty severe, so the emperor doesn't really have much day-to-day power over ordinary people in the provinces, although he can make things better or worse for them in general ways -- and people do take the ability to appeal to the emperor pretty seriously, so his legal and political authority is very clear. I sometimes suspect that most of the people the emperors had the most power over were senators and other politicians, and that it didn't really matter to anyone else who the emperor was, so long as there was one.

*nods* I see. Thank you! :)

On the HBO boards, a little segment of Cicero scholars is slowly taking over - which is a pleasant change from "OMG, he so deserved it" that was up on Sunday night. As for me, I had a rather flaily post Sunday itself - and I think my thoughts are, ultimately, that as much as they changed his character, at least they did him justice in the end. That and David Bamber did simply an amazing job. But it's always nice to find a few more Cicero fans about! I saw above that you were a teacher - what do you teach?

I avoid boards like the plague -- somehow I never got used to them. I agree, though, that they did the character justice in the last episodes, and very much in that final scene. My problems aren't with the characters (either Cicero or Pullo) as with the writing.

I adore Cicero; I teach Classics (Latin and ancient history, to be specific).

I read somewhere they changed the writers up a lot, which certainly doesn't help. In other series, it's made things so inconsistant - Stargate goes off and does that every now and then. But even though finding insightful posters on the boards is searching for a proverbial needle, I've met some very thoughtful people there!

That last scene - I'm still struck by its haunting beauty and the grace and nobility with which they handled it. David Bamber was absolutely stunning - I only wish he could get some kind of recognition for it.

Oh, that's wonderful that you teach Classics, and get to inspire that passion for the ancient world in your students. I have very, very fond memories of my Classics profs - I majored in Ancient Greek in undergrad and took two years of Latin. What are some of your favorite writings of Cicero? What books on/about him would you especially recommend?