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Religion and Proselytism
::takes a deep breath::
I've been talking about religion off and on with various people on livejournal over the past few days, and "listening" to other livejournal conversations on the subject. Then, earlier today had an encounter with a Well-Meaning Proselyte. Well-Meaning in the sense that I don't think she was trying to offend me, and I decided not to be offended by it.
One of the things that struck me as I read was the difficulty of certain Christians in understanding why others can find proselytism offensive; equally, it seems to me that just saying, "Why can't you see that it's offensive?" doesn't get us anywhere. So here an attempt to explain why I find Christian proselytes offensive in principle, rather than annoying. This may just be me, of course; other people, Jewish, atheist, pagan, whatever, may well read this and think, "Nope, that's just her. What a nut!"
The offense isn't to me. I can smile and brush off the suggestion, or explain politely that I'm not interested, and generally people will understand that and and leave me alone. People who keep trying to persuade me are another matter, but again, I'm capable of cutting off a conversation that I don't want to have.
The offense stems from the suggestion that there is something missing in my life because I do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and that because of that, I am Not Right With God. Again, the offense is not to me, personally--there are any number of ways in which it's very likely that I am Not Right With God, although I would maintain my failure to embrace Jesus as my savior is not among them. And even granted that this be grounds for personal offense, I'm a grown woman and I can take a certain amount of abuse.
I feel differently about insults to my family; indeed, an earlier draft of this had "but no one insults my family," written in bold and all-caps. And the suggestion that I'm missing something implies that they too are (or were) missing something--and that is offensive to me. The mere suggestion that someone as good and kind as my grandmother, or my uncle who passed away over the summer, was missing something so intrinsic that if there is a Heaven she isn't there, merely because of her religion--that's deeply insulting to her. The suggestion that all my ancestors, no matter how they lived their lives, were somehow Not Right With God because of their religion is offensive. Even more so, the suggestion that the cousins who were lost in the Shoah were "missing" something. And even more than that, the suggestion that all those who died kiddush ha-Shem (for the sanctification of God's Name, that is, for their religion) died for nothing. That is unutterably, appallingly rude. Those people were Right With God. I know that in my bones. To suggest that I am missing something, because of my religion, is to suggest that all of them were missing something. That they were mistaken. That they were, in some deep way, wrong. Not only do I not believe that, I am offended by the very suggestion. Metaphorically, the invitation to become a Christian is an invitation to spit on my ancestors' graves. I would rather not, and don't think that this is a decision which requires further explanation.
I understand that Christians may disagree with me on all these points. Perhaps proselytes have a different definition of politeness, but I was taught that insulting other people's family members is unacceptable behavior. Small children do it because they don't know any better; as adults, we learn to keep some of our opinions to ourselves. As adults, of course, we are also free to choose to offend each other, and to ignore behavior which is offensive to us. I usually manage the second response, but wonder if it's wrong that I should feel obliged to. And then again, what is the appropriate response to a suggestion to which I react with such bone-deep horror?
So. Crazy? Incoherent? Offensive? I leave that to the rest of you.
I've been talking about religion off and on with various people on livejournal over the past few days, and "listening" to other livejournal conversations on the subject. Then, earlier today had an encounter with a Well-Meaning Proselyte. Well-Meaning in the sense that I don't think she was trying to offend me, and I decided not to be offended by it.
One of the things that struck me as I read was the difficulty of certain Christians in understanding why others can find proselytism offensive; equally, it seems to me that just saying, "Why can't you see that it's offensive?" doesn't get us anywhere. So here an attempt to explain why I find Christian proselytes offensive in principle, rather than annoying. This may just be me, of course; other people, Jewish, atheist, pagan, whatever, may well read this and think, "Nope, that's just her. What a nut!"
The offense isn't to me. I can smile and brush off the suggestion, or explain politely that I'm not interested, and generally people will understand that and and leave me alone. People who keep trying to persuade me are another matter, but again, I'm capable of cutting off a conversation that I don't want to have.
The offense stems from the suggestion that there is something missing in my life because I do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, and that because of that, I am Not Right With God. Again, the offense is not to me, personally--there are any number of ways in which it's very likely that I am Not Right With God, although I would maintain my failure to embrace Jesus as my savior is not among them. And even granted that this be grounds for personal offense, I'm a grown woman and I can take a certain amount of abuse.
I feel differently about insults to my family; indeed, an earlier draft of this had "but no one insults my family," written in bold and all-caps. And the suggestion that I'm missing something implies that they too are (or were) missing something--and that is offensive to me. The mere suggestion that someone as good and kind as my grandmother, or my uncle who passed away over the summer, was missing something so intrinsic that if there is a Heaven she isn't there, merely because of her religion--that's deeply insulting to her. The suggestion that all my ancestors, no matter how they lived their lives, were somehow Not Right With God because of their religion is offensive. Even more so, the suggestion that the cousins who were lost in the Shoah were "missing" something. And even more than that, the suggestion that all those who died kiddush ha-Shem (for the sanctification of God's Name, that is, for their religion) died for nothing. That is unutterably, appallingly rude. Those people were Right With God. I know that in my bones. To suggest that I am missing something, because of my religion, is to suggest that all of them were missing something. That they were mistaken. That they were, in some deep way, wrong. Not only do I not believe that, I am offended by the very suggestion. Metaphorically, the invitation to become a Christian is an invitation to spit on my ancestors' graves. I would rather not, and don't think that this is a decision which requires further explanation.
I understand that Christians may disagree with me on all these points. Perhaps proselytes have a different definition of politeness, but I was taught that insulting other people's family members is unacceptable behavior. Small children do it because they don't know any better; as adults, we learn to keep some of our opinions to ourselves. As adults, of course, we are also free to choose to offend each other, and to ignore behavior which is offensive to us. I usually manage the second response, but wonder if it's wrong that I should feel obliged to. And then again, what is the appropriate response to a suggestion to which I react with such bone-deep horror?
So. Crazy? Incoherent? Offensive? I leave that to the rest of you.
no subject
When I listen to someone who has a very strong faith, who fascinates me with the way he/she talks about religion in a not-in-my-face way, THAT's when I start listening.
I must say, and I'm sorry if this is generalising, or oversimplifying, that I was utterly shocked when I visited the States in 2000 and so many people were, to my liberal German traditional Lutheran mind, completely too open about their religion.
See, our family doesn't do prayers before dinner. Many people may consider this wrong, but my grandfather was a pastor, and he never did it, so why should we? You should have seen the looks I got when I didn't join my hosts.
Many of the people I met were scaring me with the way they went about their religion.
To me, religion is something private. Yes, I am Christian, but is there any need to shout that from the mountaintop? Many Christians may see this as a sin, or that I'm ashamed of my beliefs. I'm not. But I continue to think that if people want to know about religion, that THIS is the moment when I should start talking about it. Or when the situation is right.
And if someone's not sharing my religious beliefs, then there's no point in my trying to convert him/her. It's a) not going to work, if their own belief is strong and b) it's appallingly rude. However, if they show interest, then I can give examples of how faith is helping me in my life, and how it changes the way I see things. But out and about telling that person he/she will go to hell because he doesn't share my beliefs?
We're not Knight templars, damn it. And even those were a dark chapter of Christianity, and I don't even want to think about how many people were killed in the name of religion but, ultimately, only out of greed.
So, what this comes back to? I'm very glad I live in a country as liberal as mine is. I know, when you see Lutheran, you probably get a twitching muscle in your jaw. But believe me that the Lutheran church in Germany and the one in the States is different as day and night. We're quiet. Not in a way that we don't do anything, but that we go about religion in a "don't do upon others what you don't want done upon yourself".
Sorry again for generalising, but a lot of the American Christians, as much as I marvel the depth of their faith, scare me. Literally scare me. How can you take the bible literally. If you do, then us women couldn't possibly do anything when we have our period. And after birth, we should be separated from everyone else for how many, 30 days?
What angers me about Christian fanatics, too, is that they take passages from the Old Testament and use it whenever they suit them, and yet they manage to condemn Jews. What the fuck? Same book in most passages, people, don't you think? (Feel free to correct me here)
Not being Jewish myself, the idea behind that card you received yesterday irked me irrationally. It's disrespectful. It's rude. It's just something you DON'T DO.
And insulting your family? I'm sorry, but this is where any kind of fun always stops. Insult the family, face a roundhouse kick in your face with words.
no subject
Second, I believe that spiritual progress is only made on your own; that is, your listening/prayers/action are what bring you to a genuinely fuller understanding of the spiritual, not just signing your name to a set of tenets you haven't proved for yourself. I've put a lot of thought into some of this stuff, so it definitely comes across as offensive if someone's message is that, essentially, their way is right so therefore I'm wrong. How do they know the depth and scope of my efforts in regard to spirituality? What right do they have to judge?
This is one of the things that puzzles me the most: that Jesus was very clear in his instruction not to judge others, and yet the fundamentalists seem to thrive on judging... especially, as some have pointed out, when others land below them on their perceived scale of good and evil. Reminds me of that terrible, terrible bumper sticker that says, 'Christians aren't perfect, just saved.' Can you say 'nanny, nanny, nanny'?
I guess what jars me is the discrepancy between form and substance. Anyone--in any faith tradition--can talk salvation. But those who have glimpsed something of the divine radiate that inspiration. You can see something exceptional in them... and they tend to be too busy living their faith to spend time talking about it, or warning you about eternal damnation. They're too busy living their truth right here, right now.
no subject
Thank you for your reply. Honestly and deeply: Thank you.