vaznetti | racism and antisemitism

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racism and antisemitism

I was going to post about my response to

ibarw (International Blog Against Racism Week; visit the comm for links and discussion), and kept putting it off, because I get the sense that people's feelings are still rather raw, and goodness knows we don't need another round of "those Italians/Hungarians/Russians/Protestants/whatevers beat up my grandparents!" I think that IBARW is a good and useful thing, irrespective of how it makes me feel.

Now I'm in the situation where I think I ought to speak up about that. This is in response to a chain of posts which have something to do with that thing about bands playing gay on stage which (a) I do not know anything about and (b) I do not care anything about. As far as I'm concerned, what I'm talking about starts here, with a comment which I am going to come out and say is anti-semitic.

chopchica, who I do not know at all, responds here. And finally

technosage examined her own discomfort with discussions of antisemitism here.

One of the weirder things about being a member of what we call an invisible minority is the sense that you really are invisible: that honestly, the world would be a simpler and happier place if you simply didn't exist to mess up other people's world view, and that, if you insist on your existence, you're doing something rude. I didn't post this during

ibarw because I didn't want to be rude. A lot of people I like and respect are involved in

ibarw, and I think it is a good and important thing, and I didn't want to mess it up by insisting on imposing my perspective on it. But I feel silenced by IBARW, not because I don't usually talk about racism in my off-line life, but because I do; but when I talk about racism in these contexts, my experiences and understanding of antisemitism are considered relevant to the discussion, whereas in IBARW I'm not sure they would be welcome.

I think there are a couple reasons for this. The biggest, probably, is that a lot of the IBARW discussions are about white privilege, and American Jews are usually able to take advantage of this. I don't mean to belittle the importance of this: it's a very significant advantage. I would point out that being white and being Christian are not the same things; I don't think I can pass for Christian, although I've never tried. I don't know how relevant that is to most IBARW discussions, honestly, so I understand why the issue gets sidelined; being Jewish -- which includes not being Christian -- is pretty central to my own identity.

The second, and more insidious reason, is that I don't think antisemitism lives in the same places as other forms of racism (or, "as racism," if you want to draw a distinction between the two), which is to say that in my experience you never really know who's going to come out with an anti-semitic comment, and it often seems to me that antisemitism is a bit more acceptable on the left wing than the right wing, at least in the countries I've lived in. The anti-racist "we" may hold a variety of different attitudes toward antisemitism, and bringing the subject up might well end up fracturing that anti-racist "we." I sometimes get the sense that there is a certain amount of denial about this on the left.

I rather feel like I have taken my life into my hands writing that last bit.

And honestly, right now I also want to add that I am not going to discuss Israel in the comments to this post.

I should also make the point that the urge to pass is a strong one: why draw attention to your differences from the majority if you don't have to? And the answer is right there: because eventually, the majority will point them out to you anyway.

We used to joke about a family friend who thought there was an anti-semite hiding under every bed; more and more, the joke seems to be that there usually is.

I'm not sure where else to take this, except that I don't think that it's right that I feel silenced on this issue. And therefore, I am speaking. And that is probably why I will not lock this post.

My perspective may be a little odd. I grew up in San Francisco, which is not a very Jewish city, but which is a pretty tolerant place, and I went to an Ivy League college which was probably 20% Jewish, if not more. Most of my experiences with antisemitism have come while I lived outside the US, either in the UK or in Canada; some of it is just "Oh, aren't you exotic," some of it is the more disturbing habit of taking stereotype for fact. I usually blame anti-semitic comments made to my face on ignorance rather than ill-will. One of the reasons I would like to move back to the US is that Jewishness feeds into my feeling of being alien in both Canada and the UK; visiting New York this summer, a city I have lived in for about ten months total, was like having a weight lifted from my shoulders. I have a lot of issues about Judaism, and my Jewish identity, but they're my issues: my identity isn't going anywhere, while I work them out.

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The anti-racist "we" may hold a variety of different attitudes toward antisemitism, and bringing the subject up might well end up fracturing that anti-racist "we." I sometimes get the sense that there is a certain amount of denial about this on the left.

That's a very good point. But could you unpack the bit about there being more anti-semitism on the left than the right?

I've had relatively little exposure to blatant anti-semitism, other than a bizarre conversation with a boyfriend of a roommate--he was astonished that I was Catholic, because, he said, "But Jesus was a Jew!". (@@ -- I'm still not sure he got the fundamental logical fallacy there, as Christianity is in many ways responsible for anti-semitism to begin with.)

Anyway, I thank you for this post. I think Chopchica's post was spot-on, and I think it's vital to remind people that to be Jewish is both a religious and a cultural/racial identity, which omg complicates things immensely.

Thank you for posting your crunchy thoughts on this.

I'm sort of swimming inside my own head right now, after reading your words and the words of those to whom you linked; there they were, a lot of my own thoughts, written by others with a reluctant hand, and I keep thinking "YES, yes, that's it exactly."

Marrying a Christian (by both upbringing and surname) and working for the nuns has pushed me back into my "passing" behavior far further than I'd even realized. I used to have to do it growing up -- I was routinely beaten on the school yard every Easter, and charmingly renamed "Christ Killer" throughout -- being part of such a small minority there made "passing" a necessary evil whenever possible.

When I moved to the Chicago area, it was like coming to a home I never knew I had. I was of course terribly lonely, having no history here, but the sheer number of Jews and the prevalence of Jewish culture in certain parts of the metro area, and the ability to actually earn money by singing in a synagogue -- these were all awakening experiences for me, and I pulled myself out of that old behavior and felt comfortable for the first time in my life just being myself.

My husband isn't a religious person, and my in-laws are nothing but sweet, and the nuns don't mind that I'm a heathen, but I've found myself burying my Jewishness in an effort to both fit in and move ahead. Because when I was a little "too" Jewish, the boss would constantly make a point of mentioning it in groups, as if to indicate how very welcome and included I was.

I spent seven months looking for a content guy for our website, and when I finally found just the right person, he turned out to be Jewish. Like, New York, worked for the national synagogue organization Jewish. And let me tell you, I was PARANOID. Paranoid that all my colleagues would mutter behind my back about how we only hire our own kind, and how I was trying to subvert the Catholic mission or whatever, despite the fact that my boss had met with at least a dozen prior candidates and agreed that they weren't suitable. I'm still paranoid about it. And when this guy is openly, unabashedly, proudly Jewish, it shames the living hell out of me.

Truly, I don't know how to behave anymore. I stay quiet, and I swallow my annoyance at MONTHS of enforced Christmas and Easter everywhere I go, and I am forced to listen ad nauseam to right-wing lunatics who manage to get on the public airwaves and complain that my mere trickle of a minority is attempting to DESTROY CHRISTIANITY through our powerful media empire and by trying to outlaw Christmas, and I get dizzy and lost in all of it.

I don't like Secret Santa, but I do it if everybody else is, and I don't complain about it. I don't want to listen to Christmas carols, thanks. Sang a ton of them in school, and I'm good, really. But they play and I deal with it. When Bush was inaugurated in 2001, he was sworn in after a blessing "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ," and BOOM, I was completely and utterly disenfranchised from my own government. Christian Dominionism is growing, and it scares the living shit out of me.

Gah. I have no idea how to think about this. But thank you for bringing it up. I too felt like I had nothing useful to contribute to IBARW, but felt concern about anti-semitism (particularly online, which is both common and horrifyingly blunt) poking at the inside of my brain.

I've been pondering a new fic series featuring an openly Jewish protagonist, but I've been resisting; partly because I was afraid of the cries of "Mary Sue!", but also because i know how crazy fandom can get about religion. I still want to write it, but I think I have to immunize myself against the lunacy before I try. I suppose it helps that I'm utterly obscure and nobody will read it anyway. ;-)

This is definitely a kick in the tuches that I needed. Thank you for bringing up the subject, and thank you for the very thought-provoking links.

But could you unpack the bit about there being more anti-semitism on the left than the right?

I think that sometimes support for the Palestinians on the left may create an atmosphere in which people feel that it's acceptable to make anti-semitic comments. I think that this may be more prevalent outside the US than inside it, although I have heard anecdotal evidence for Jews feeling excluded from e.g. anti-war events in the US.

And thanks.

It's not like you to post on such a volatile/sensitive/personal topic, but I'm so glad you did. The post and links make for fascinating reading. I'm embarrassed to say how utterly oblivious I often am (as a non-Jew) to possible Jewish perspectives, until someone comes out and articulates them (although the original anti-semitic comment you link to is bad enough to make any decent person wince). The IBARW is a case in point. Did the issue of anti-semitism even cross my mind in that context? No. I also remember running into you in Oxford one December and you making a passing remark on how much more insensitive the UK is than the US when it comes to assuming the universality of Christmas. I had never noticed it before, but since you mentioned it, it's been so glaringly obvious to me every year that I don't know how I ever failed to notice it in the first place.

The anti-racist "we" may hold a variety of different attitudes toward antisemitism, and bringing the subject up might well end up fracturing that anti-racist "we."

If so, then it's a "we" that NEEDS to be fractured.

I had a hard-copy post (i.e., something I was scribbling in a notebook in the wee hours, when I could bear to think about it) back during the first IBARW about this. Primarily about how 'being able to pass' feels at times like I'm being...it's more than being 'ignored,' it's being 'deliberately not thought about.' Because there IS the sense of 'don't you dare protest; it's not the same! Go away now, you who have nothing to truly complain about' that comes from all sides. Sometimes I honestly do think I'd rather be obviously Not The Same, because it's also about how it twists something hard inside me every time someone assumes that I am some form of Christian -- something that's happened a gazillion times in a gazillion ways, without any thought at all that it might be otherwise, and makes me feel like I simply don't exist. And about how that twist turns into nausea when it's something said without thought by someone who damn well knows that I am not. It doesn't matter that more often than not, it's not done with deliberate intent to harm; what matters is that it's completely unconscious on their part, and that I don't feel like I am allowed to say, "Wait. Don't do that."

I grew up in possibly the most Jewish town on the East Coast outside of NYC, a town that gave us the first day of each High Holiday off from school because there would be that many students missing if they didn't. I grew up in a Reform temple, and am at the point where I consider my Judaism to be more cultural than religious. I've never had anyone call me a name outright. The only time/place I had people tell me Jew-jokes or make "oh yeah, well, he's a JEW" type comments to me (knowing that I'm Jewish) was while living in and around DC. I spend much of my LJ energy in December gritting my teeth and staying quiet, because I feel like it's a place that I SHOULD feel comfortable speaking up about how extremely uncomfortable I am, and yet I actually feel like I'd be glared at and waved off faster than I have been when I've attempted to speak up offline. I...have too many other thoughts, and I've only ducked online to check my e-mail, and what little time I have was so not meant to be spent on this, but screw it. I'm tired of being silent on just about everything that matters to me, so, yeah. It's not the same. But it's not nothing, either.

I'm tired of being silent on just about everything that matters to me, so, yeah. It's not the same. But it's not nothing, either.

Yes, I was getting tired of being silent -- and feeling silenced -- about this issue, and that post was what I needed to get me to not be silent. I grit my teeth through IBARW, and then decided it wasn't worth making a fuss about, but it turns out that it was.

...because it's also about how it twists something hard inside me every time someone assumes that I am some form of Christian -- something that's happened a gazillion times in a gazillion ways, without any thought at all that it might be otherwise, and makes me feel like I simply don't exist.

This bothers me more at some times than it does at others; especially living outside the US you just have to kind of accept the fact that everyone thinks everyone else is Christian, and that the people who aren't should just shut up about it. But I do reserve the right to wish people a Happy Hanukkah when they wish me a Marry Christmas, because I like to see their expressions.

right to wish people a Happy Hanukkah when they wish me a Merry Christmas

Perhaps I'm confused, but I always thought this is what you were *supposed* to do - either respond with the appropriate 'blessing' of your own, or, if none applied, say "And the same to you!"

(Like, if I'm leaving, and another person's staying, they say "travel safe" and I say "you too" (generally out of reflex) or "stay safe".)

I get confused (and a bit defensive) when people say that I'm *not* supposed to wish random people Merry Christmas (or, "Happy Fourth!" or what ever) as the season dictates.

(I do think that more particular-religion-specific stuff (greeting cards with scripture verses or pictures, f'zample) might be best left to those people you're pretty sure will appreciate it.)

Your thoughts?

- hg

I've been pondering a new fic series featuring an openly Jewish protagonist, but I've been resisting; partly because I was afraid of the cries of "Mary Sue!", but also because i know how crazy fandom can get about religion.

I have been thinking of this as well, but am of two minds for the same reason. And of course, I've been writing pretty slowly anyway these days.

My husband isn't a religious person, and my in-laws are nothing but sweet, and the nuns don't mind that I'm a heathen, but I've found myself burying my Jewishness in an effort to both fit in and move ahead. Because when I was a little "too" Jewish, the boss would constantly make a point of mentioning it in groups, as if to indicate how very welcome and included I was.

Ugh. My in-laws, too, are extremely sweet, but sometimes it feels like being a bug on a slide. I know they're only trying to make sure they don't accidentally offend me, but still. And yet at the same time I'm just as suspicious of other Jews, who I'm sure are secretly judging me for my bacon-eating and marrying-out. Most of the time I don't know what I think.

I'm doing a lot of flailing around here myself.

Perhaps I'm confused, but I always thought this is what you were *supposed* to do - either respond with the appropriate 'blessing' of your own, or, if none applied, say "And the same to you!"

I pretty much agree -- and don't really mind being wished a Merry Christmas -- but you would be surprised to know how many people actually look shocked and offended when I turn around and wish them a Happy Hanukkah. Some people smile and accept it, some people look a little surprised (up to standing with their mouths gaping open), but a lot of people get kind of huffy about it. That's when it gets a little offensive, I think -- it's all down to the way the person acts at that point.

Like, if I'm leaving, and another person's staying, they say "travel safe" and I say "you too" (generally out of reflex) or "stay safe".

I always say "you too," out of reflex, and then feel like a dolt.

The anti-racist "we" may hold a variety of different attitudes toward antisemitism, and bringing the subject up might well end up fracturing that anti-racist "we." I sometimes get the sense that there is a certain amount of denial about this on the left.

I'm running back out the door, but earlier today some friends and I were saying exactly the same thing while discussing the posts you linked, and I am totally in agreement with you on this point... And I think what you say is partly why I feel like the antisemitism discussion might have the potential to get uglier than the discussions about race, but I'm still extremely glad you posted and I relate to a lot of this, so, thank you!

Regarding the comment When Bush was inaugurated in 2001, he was sworn in after a blessing "in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Christian Dominionism is growing, and it scares the living shit out of me. can I just say that it scares the living hell out of me too and I'm neither American nor jewish. By the time "The West Wing" was over I was furious with it for how much the "good guys" screwed the minorities over with their behaviour and how NOBODY called them on it (except once or twice in the early episodes). It put me off the democrats completely. Normally I don't read the fandoms to know if/how much it was noted there.

I can understand the urge to pass as what ever the majority is. IMO That is not so much about race or religion as a desire to fit in and be like everyone else. Of course there is also the desire not to have to explain the fact that you ARE different every time you open your front door too.

In (http://technosage.livejournal.com/200493.html?thread=4050477#t4050477) one commenter states "One thing that frustrates me in discussions about race and power and the things that attend is that so many privileged white people in fandom (and really, in, you know, the world) are reluctant to really engage because they somehow feel that their privilege precludes their opinions." And I would agree. But for completely other reasons from their next sentence. I feel like because I am white my opinion doesn't count. I didn't even feel entitled to go reading ibarw. If I agree, it is of no importance and if I disagree, it is just more proof that white people are bigots, especially me. I read the links but left no comments despite wanting to on several occasions.

I am all for ending discrimination. But I want to stop putting labels on it - Antisemitic, racism, sectarianism, homophobia etc. To me, labeling is a way of reinforcing the differences. I've never met anyone who fit into one of the boxes that could be used to identify them. Discrimination is discrimination. People have died for every difference under the sun. Should we not stop arguing about whether it was one kind of discrimination or another?

Discrimination needs to be flagged when we see it - but do we have to put it in a box and label it as a specific kind?

I know it must have been hard to write this entry and I want to thank you for having the nerve. In the past I have phrased myself badly and ended up saying things I didn't mean or meaning things I didn't say or.. So I hope I have expressed this clearly and not given offence. None is intended- I'm trying to understand and learn.

I'm not sure why you thought I wouldn't agree. This is an excellent and provocative post.

I agree wholeheartedly that there's as much anti-Semitism on the left as the right, though I don't think I'd say more. I support Palestinians, I'm not a Zionist, but I also support Israelis and Israel so long as we're not talking about the current policies of the state.

I actually think that a lot of anti-Semitism on the left comes from within, and that there's a lot of people like me who mean what I mean when they say they're not Zionists but end up saying or getting sucked into saying things like "the entire idea of Israel is racist" blah. I'm not sure I'm making my point effectively, but I mean to agree.

I also agree that Anti-Semitism thrives in an entirely different space as racism against POCs. Pretty much everyone knows it's just not okay to call someone a "nigger", but "he's such a Jew" doesn't even register. It's not considered racism or even anti-Semitism by people who I generally consider right-thinking people. Because the stereotypes are still accepted as true, because in many cases perhaps they are true, because oh what can it possibly hurt they have all the money and power anyway, ad nauseam.

It's just...people aren't trained to think about it the same way. The issues aren't the same. And, it's difficult to talk about anti-Semitism in race-related discussions because... *sigh*

Do you have any idea how hard it is to say "my mother forced me to go to the country club which I loathed because it was the only one in the city that let Jews in and the only one where my father who was chief of surgery and a pro-am tournament golfer could get a tee time without having someone else book it for him" in the midst of a conversation about water fountains, public utilities, and getting loans? It really isn't the same thing at all on the one hand, but on the other, hi, I need to tell you that "you'll go because they're the only ones who don't hate you" is still a really fucking painful way to learn what it means to be Other.

By you, I don't mean you of course, because I strongly suspect you DO know and know precisely what I'm saying. But I think that you idea that the spaces of anti-Semitism are different is bang on. It happens in board rooms and country clubs and business meetings and polite dinners and left liberal fundraising events and in different ways in right fundamentalist gatherings. It happens in churches, it happens every time a Mormon likes me because I'm one of the Lost, it happens every time the only Jew on a show is a small dweeby smart guy with a momma complex and a martyr streak...

Some of the spaces overlap, but they're not the same.

/spooge

Sorry. I hope that's responsive. =/

who I'm sure are secretly judging me for my bacon-eating

Not to make light of a serious and valuable post, but at least that headed off my mom's "OMG did I just cook an ENTIRE meal the guest can't eat?" panic attack...

Thank you for posting this.

I've got nothing in the way of response, really - I'm still parsing things out - but I wanted to thank you.

Well, I think we all have things we're oblivious to -- until someone else comes along to point them out, and then we feel embarrassed. I think one of the useful things IBARW does is perform that function for a lot of people in fandom, myself included. And I understand why the kinds of conversations people can have are limited, there, but I still find it oppressive.

And thank you for commenting.

I had totally forgotten that! Your mom would be amused to know that after writing this post I are scallops cooked in bacon for dinner.

And I think what you say is partly why I feel like the antisemitism discussion might have the potential to get uglier than the discussions about race...

Yeah, that fear is what has kept me quiet on some of these issues, and because a lot of it is stuff I do not want to discuss with people on the internet -- so I'm glad that the post made sense to you.

I've been trying to figure this out, but I can't find a way to verbalize my discomfort with this notion.

I always thought the purpose of wishing something to someone was that the thought should be personal; I don't feel comfortable wishing someone Happy New Year! in September unless I know they're Jewish. Otherwise, why would they even care, or appreciate the sentiment?

I think it might be a kneejerk reaction to anything that smacks of proselytizing, to which I appear to be allergic. It might also be part and parcel of having grown up as a very small minority, where a member of the majority would look at you as if you'd sprouted antennae if you wished them happiness for anything other than their own festival.

Hrm.

*chuckle* Well, and on a more serious note, it would never have occurred to me at all at the time. I knew the word kosher, and I think I had vaguely encountered the pork thing at some point years before, but didn't remember it until then. And I was going into my sophomore year of college!

I always say "you too," out of reflex, and then feel like a dolt.

Adding absolutely nothing to the actual conversation, but me too!

It's not considered racism or even anti-Semitism by people who I generally consider right-thinking people. Because the stereotypes are still accepted as true, because in many cases perhaps they are true, because oh what can it possibly hurt they have all the money and power anyway, ad nauseam.

This is one of the things that I hate the most, the way people can go straight from Jews to money, in about two seconds flat, and not even realize how offensive they're being. They smile at you like they've said something nice, like you should be pleased with them. And yes to the way these stereotypes are all over.

...and that there's a lot of people like me who mean what I mean when they say they're not Zionists but end up saying or getting sucked into saying things like "the entire idea of Israel is racist" blah...

I think you're giving people more credit than I do, here, although I'm sure you're right that some people end up saying things that they wouldn't mean if they thought about them -- but then, it bothers me that they can say these things without thinking about them, and often without being called on it.

I agree that it's hard to insert your (our) own experience into discussions of racism, especially of racism in the US, and that it isn't appropriate in every context, but... You know, sometimes it does have to be said, just to keep from being overwhelmed in the discussion.

I'm sorry--I hate to hear that you're feeling silenced on this issue. I'm glad you posted. Thank you.

...who I'm sure are secretly judging me for my bacon-eating and marrying-out

Hee. I try not to worry too much about judgments from other Jews about my pork jones or my having married a man named Christian, as I don't consider those activities wrong in any way.

I have, however, been derided by gentiles for not being Jewish enough. As if, by eating pork, I've lost all claim to having Jewish heritage and identifying with my Jewish upbringing and culture; the sentiment was that I might as well just surrender to the inevitable and join the majority.

I do still find it amazing that so many folks believe the default human spiritual state is Christian, and that if anyone from another religion isn't fully committed to that religion's practices, they're only one step away from giving in and becoming Christian themselves.

Well, as Vee always says, you're only as oppressed on the internet as you make yourself. A lot of this is to do with my issues, and also not wanting to rock the boat re IBARW, which a lot of people I respect care deeply about.

http://www.brian-regan.com/audio/ClipBrianReganLive-YouToo.mp3 (http://www.brian-regan.com/audio/ClipBrianReganLive-YouToo.mp3)

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WORD.