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BSG: Resistance
I have a few comments on the "What was Apollo thinking?" question :
I'm glad that Billy refused to go with Roslin; it was an extra reminder of just how complicated the situation is, and I suspect that Dualla may need him. I doubt that Adama and Tigh will be able to remain willfully blind to the mutinous elements on Galactica itself.
I've seen occasional comments suggesting that Lee was acting out-of-character in breaking his parole and helping Roslin escape. I'm not sure; he showed early on that he's more loyal to the principles of civilian government than he is to either his father or Roslin (neither of whom, I suspect, were pleased by the idea of holding an election so soon). I suspect that during the course of this single episode, Tigh's declaration of martial law went from "temporary emergency measure" to "military coup" in Lee's mind, and once he'd made that judgment, it seems to me very much in character for him to cease to work with Tigh at all, and indeed to set about restoring civilian government.
I suspect that they key turning point for Lee was not the civilians shot by marines, but the return of Baltar to the fleet -- or rather, both events worked together to persuade him. After all, when Tigh declared martial law he might have felt that there was no responsible civilian authority (especially if he accepted Adama's view that Tom Zarek was to be kept out of political power at all costs); the return of the vice president to the fleet provides an obvious moment for Tigh to back down and start talking about a timetable for the restoration of civilian government. (I mean, personally, I don't think "Baltar for President" is the greatest idea ever, but it is the legal situation, if Roslin is unable to hold her position.) Not only does Tigh not do this, but he also (so it must seem to Lee) shows himself willing to use force to maintain his authority. Had martial law been declared earlier in the show's timeline (back in the miniseries, or in the first season), Lee would almost certainly have accepted it -- but the declaration now, after a form of civilian government has been established, is pretty clearly not acceptable. I also think that Lee would be willing to accept civilian deaths on a ship that was resisting orders from Galactica (because Tigh isn't wrong when he says that resupplying the battlestar is not optional), provided that he saw Galactica as the legitimate authority. It's the two situations together that become unacceptable to him. Add in how little he respects Tigh (and how much he seems to respect Roslin, or rather what she represents), and it's easy for me to see that to Lee, Tigh's government is illegitimate, and that it is his duty to oppose it. Once his brain tells him "coup," it's inevitable.
This line of reasoning does depend on the guess that Colonial military has some idea of illegal orders -- that is, that a soldier is required not to obey illegal orders.
In an aside, was I the only one to have that song from the South Park movie going through my head while I wrote up my comments on this episode? Or indeed, whenever I think about it?
I'm glad that Billy refused to go with Roslin; it was an extra reminder of just how complicated the situation is, and I suspect that Dualla may need him. I doubt that Adama and Tigh will be able to remain willfully blind to the mutinous elements on Galactica itself.
I've seen occasional comments suggesting that Lee was acting out-of-character in breaking his parole and helping Roslin escape. I'm not sure; he showed early on that he's more loyal to the principles of civilian government than he is to either his father or Roslin (neither of whom, I suspect, were pleased by the idea of holding an election so soon). I suspect that during the course of this single episode, Tigh's declaration of martial law went from "temporary emergency measure" to "military coup" in Lee's mind, and once he'd made that judgment, it seems to me very much in character for him to cease to work with Tigh at all, and indeed to set about restoring civilian government.
I suspect that they key turning point for Lee was not the civilians shot by marines, but the return of Baltar to the fleet -- or rather, both events worked together to persuade him. After all, when Tigh declared martial law he might have felt that there was no responsible civilian authority (especially if he accepted Adama's view that Tom Zarek was to be kept out of political power at all costs); the return of the vice president to the fleet provides an obvious moment for Tigh to back down and start talking about a timetable for the restoration of civilian government. (I mean, personally, I don't think "Baltar for President" is the greatest idea ever, but it is the legal situation, if Roslin is unable to hold her position.) Not only does Tigh not do this, but he also (so it must seem to Lee) shows himself willing to use force to maintain his authority. Had martial law been declared earlier in the show's timeline (back in the miniseries, or in the first season), Lee would almost certainly have accepted it -- but the declaration now, after a form of civilian government has been established, is pretty clearly not acceptable. I also think that Lee would be willing to accept civilian deaths on a ship that was resisting orders from Galactica (because Tigh isn't wrong when he says that resupplying the battlestar is not optional), provided that he saw Galactica as the legitimate authority. It's the two situations together that become unacceptable to him. Add in how little he respects Tigh (and how much he seems to respect Roslin, or rather what she represents), and it's easy for me to see that to Lee, Tigh's government is illegitimate, and that it is his duty to oppose it. Once his brain tells him "coup," it's inevitable.
This line of reasoning does depend on the guess that Colonial military has some idea of illegal orders -- that is, that a soldier is required not to obey illegal orders.
In an aside, was I the only one to have that song from the South Park movie going through my head while I wrote up my comments on this episode? Or indeed, whenever I think about it?
Justification
OTOH, whether *I* (or you, or my great aunt Sally) thinks he's justified, entirely or not, to break his word without visible concern over what that entails, is beside the point. Just as I think it's beside the point to decide if Adama was justified in lying to the fleet about knowing where earth was, or if Roslin was justified in dumping ol'whats-is-name for Baltar in the vp race -
- as you said, there are *no* good choices here. (And yeah, I'd love to debate the pros and cons.)
But if we're trying to decide if the actions seem justified from that character's pov, *and* we assume that the character is using logical reasoning to reach their decision, then I think some examination of what the facts of the matter are, as would appear to that character, and what he was thinking.
Am I making any sense?
- hg
Re: Justification
What I think I meant is this. You seem to me to be arguing that Lee's decision was driven by emotion more than by reason. I think I was arguing that he did have a rationale for "breaking his word" (that is, that he could either break his word to Tigh or his oath to uphold the articles of whatever-they-are) -- and that if he had decided that Tigh had set a coup in motion, he would probably feel that had had no choice but to break his word.
As you say, there are two sides to the issue of justification -- whether Lee thinks he was justified in what he did, and whether we think he was justified in what he did. I don't think that the second part of the question is irrelevant; I'm interested in the moral choices characters make.
I'm not sure this response is helpful at all. I think part of the problem is that we're arguing without much data. We saw what Lee did in the episode, but we weren't privy to his thinking, so I think we're both speculating without sufficinet data. Which is fun, but it's not an argument either of us can win.
Re: Justification
ITA. Isn't this show great, that it leaves things open like that?
I'd like to do one more comment (in my lj) that covers the "is there anyone else who thought Lee wasn't the sort of person to casually/easily/without *mentioning* it/ or in any other way break his given word?" - which constitutes one part of my response to this issue, with the (in)/accuracy (from Lee's pov) of the statement "Tigh set in motion a military coup" being another part.
However, there is this crazy thing called "multiverse" that's due on Monday or some such thing. *g*
I'm looking forward to seeing what light canon can shed on the argument.
- hg